Some previously despised minority groups, such as Asian immigrants, have not only broken the self-perpetuating cycle, they’ve gone so far out of its orbit that their population in universities are actually being actively limited by these policies.
Given that affirmative action is by some accounts responsible for higher university drop-out rates in target minorities, are you sure (I’m presuming you support the argument you’re forwarding, my apologies if you’re merely presenting it as an alternative line of argument raised by those who support the policies) that such policies aren’t merely reinforcing the self-perpetuating cycle?
If you’re presuming that I support the policies as practiced, you would be incorrect. I think that the argument has some merits in theory, but the implementation is not well devised to realize them.
That said, while I don’t doubt that the rate of university dropouts among target minorities is higher than it would be without affirmative action, I would be interested and surprised if this led to a net decrease in university graduations among target minorities, which would be an allegation I haven’t heard before.
I would be interested and surprised if this led to a net decrease in university graduations among target minorities, which would be an allegation I haven’t heard before.
The theory is that due to affirmative action target minorities get mismatched with schools. Thus they wind in in tougher schools then they should be and thus drop out.
I get the concept, but as I said, I would be surprised if the actual result is a lower level of college graduates in target minorities.
I have no doubt that the system does push in some such underqualified students. But it also does push in candidates who grow into their environment, who become quite good students. It’s not necessarily easy to tell in advance which will be which.
As I understand it, the change in peoples’ view of Asian immigrants is partly because the immigrants have changed. A greater proportion of recent Asian immigrants to the US (compared with early waves of Asian immigrants) were of high socioeconomic status in their home country, and are coming for professional careers or to go to school, rather than to be factory or other low-status workers.
(And depending on how you define caught in the cycle, the descendants of early Asian immigrants might still be—even if race isn’t against them anymore (which it might be in some cases—I don’t know), social mobility is still difficult.)
Some previously despised minority groups, such as Asian immigrants, have not only broken the self-perpetuating cycle, they’ve gone so far out of its orbit that their population in universities are actually being actively limited by these policies.
Given that affirmative action is by some accounts responsible for higher university drop-out rates in target minorities, are you sure (I’m presuming you support the argument you’re forwarding, my apologies if you’re merely presenting it as an alternative line of argument raised by those who support the policies) that such policies aren’t merely reinforcing the self-perpetuating cycle?
If you’re presuming that I support the policies as practiced, you would be incorrect. I think that the argument has some merits in theory, but the implementation is not well devised to realize them.
That said, while I don’t doubt that the rate of university dropouts among target minorities is higher than it would be without affirmative action, I would be interested and surprised if this led to a net decrease in university graduations among target minorities, which would be an allegation I haven’t heard before.
The theory is that due to affirmative action target minorities get mismatched with schools. Thus they wind in in tougher schools then they should be and thus drop out.
I get the concept, but as I said, I would be surprised if the actual result is a lower level of college graduates in target minorities.
I have no doubt that the system does push in some such underqualified students. But it also does push in candidates who grow into their environment, who become quite good students. It’s not necessarily easy to tell in advance which will be which.
Well, the dropout rate among target minorities is certainly higher.
As I understand it, the change in peoples’ view of Asian immigrants is partly because the immigrants have changed. A greater proportion of recent Asian immigrants to the US (compared with early waves of Asian immigrants) were of high socioeconomic status in their home country, and are coming for professional careers or to go to school, rather than to be factory or other low-status workers.
(And depending on how you define caught in the cycle, the descendants of early Asian immigrants might still be—even if race isn’t against them anymore (which it might be in some cases—I don’t know), social mobility is still difficult.)
Also worth noting that social stigma and material/academic success often coexist.