Well, let me spell it out even more so than I already have.
Preferences are system 2 concepts.
Over time, system 2 concepts map to system 1 concepts.
As such, if you prefer ice cream to spinach, you will feel bad (in a system 1 sense) if you are promised ice cream but given spinach.
In humans, as such, any preference against a thing means that human feels bad about that thing.
anything with “boo murder” in it is too hard to argue with regardless of the standards of the content.
Arguing about the choice of something that represents the LW concept of negative utility in a hypothetical example is equivalent to arguing about grammar.
Let A(X) be a function such that X.Consciousness becomes terminated (ends, dies, etc.)
I have a preference for NOT A(me).
Over time, the above maps to Feel Bad → A(me)
As such, if I am offered NOT A(me), and given A(me), I will feel bad because I attempt to be reflectively coherent.
As such, my preference for NOT A(me) does, as you claim, imply that I ought to feel bad about A(me).
The above are intended as a rephrasing of your statements, and I fully agree.
However…
Because if “I don’t want to be murdered because by TDT-style rhetoric it leads to my being more likely to be murdered,” and if you feel bad about being murdered, you abstain from murdering people because you feel bad.
You are making the subsequent conclusion that I have:
Feel Bad → A( X | X.isElementOf(people) )
because I have preference for NOT A(me).
wedrifid correctly asserts that this does not follow.
If I’m reading it right I don’t think your formalism fits what I’m trying to argue, but this is a boring point and I’m not terribly interested in taking it further.
Well, let me spell it out even more so than I already have.
“That doesn’t follow” does not mean “I cannot understand your argument”. It means that the argument was fundamentally logically flawed and your reasoning confused.
As such, if you prefer ice cream to spinach, you will feel bad (in a system 1 sense) if you are promised ice cream but given spinach.
Some people might feel bad. Others would feel amused (and, incidentally, many would personally develop themselves such that they are more inclined to feel positive than negative emotions in that kind of situation). Most importantly, system 1 refers to a heck of a lot more than emotions. Even system 1 based decisions to avoid something don’t translate to ‘feeling bad’ about it. Especially in people who are mature or experienced.
In humans, as such, any preference against a thing means that human feels bad about that thing.
No it doesn’t.
Arguing about the choice of something that represents the LW concept of negative utility in a hypothetical example is equivalent to arguing about grammar.
I dispute both your first and your second bullet point. As far as I know there exist both system 1 and system 2 preferences, and it’s not clear that system 2 concepts usually bridge the gap. Can you give some examples or evidence?
Well, let me spell it out even more so than I already have.
Preferences are system 2 concepts.
Over time, system 2 concepts map to system 1 concepts.
As such, if you prefer ice cream to spinach, you will feel bad (in a system 1 sense) if you are promised ice cream but given spinach.
In humans, as such, any preference against a thing means that human feels bad about that thing.
Arguing about the choice of something that represents the LW concept of negative utility in a hypothetical example is equivalent to arguing about grammar.
Let A(X) be a function such that X.Consciousness becomes terminated (ends, dies, etc.)
I have a preference for NOT A(me).
Over time, the above maps to Feel Bad → A(me)
As such, if I am offered NOT A(me), and given A(me), I will feel bad because I attempt to be reflectively coherent.
As such, my preference for NOT A(me) does, as you claim, imply that I ought to feel bad about A(me).
The above are intended as a rephrasing of your statements, and I fully agree.
However…
You are making the subsequent conclusion that I have:
Feel Bad → A( X | X.isElementOf(people) )
because I have preference for NOT A(me).
wedrifid correctly asserts that this does not follow.
If I’m reading it right I don’t think your formalism fits what I’m trying to argue, but this is a boring point and I’m not terribly interested in taking it further.
“That doesn’t follow” does not mean “I cannot understand your argument”. It means that the argument was fundamentally logically flawed and your reasoning confused.
Some people might feel bad. Others would feel amused (and, incidentally, many would personally develop themselves such that they are more inclined to feel positive than negative emotions in that kind of situation). Most importantly, system 1 refers to a heck of a lot more than emotions. Even system 1 based decisions to avoid something don’t translate to ‘feeling bad’ about it. Especially in people who are mature or experienced.
No it doesn’t.
Irrelevant.
I dispute both your first and your second bullet point. As far as I know there exist both system 1 and system 2 preferences, and it’s not clear that system 2 concepts usually bridge the gap. Can you give some examples or evidence?