Is it just me or do others also find that Eliezer coming of as a tad petulant with the way he is handling people systematically opposing and downvoting his proposal? Every time he got downvoted to oblivion he just came back with a new comment seemingly crafted to be more belligerent, whiny, condescending and cynical about the community than the last. (That’s hyperbole—in actuality it peaked in the middle somewhere.) Now we just keep getting reminded about it at every opportunity as noise in unrelated threads.
I observe that wedifrid has taken advantage of this particular opportunity to remind everyone that he thinks I am belligerent, whiny, condescending, and cynical.
(So noted because I was a bit unhappy at how the conversation suddenly got steered there.)
I observe that wedifrid has taken advantage of this particular opportunity to remind everyone that he thinks I am belligerent, whiny, condescending, and cynical.
I notice that my criticism was made specifically regarding the exhibition of those behaviors in the comments he has made about the subject he has brought up here. We can even see that I made specific links. Eliezer seems to be conflating this with a declaration that he has those features as part of his innate disposition.
By saying that wedrifid is reminding people that he (supposedly) believes Eliezer has those dispositions he also implies that wedrifid has said this previously. This is odd because I find myself to be fairly open with making criticisms of Eliezer whenever I feel them justified and from what I recall “belligerent, whiny, condescending, and cynical [about the lesswrong community]” isn’t remotely like a list of weaknesses that I actually have described Eliezer as having in general or at any particular time that I recall.
Usually when people make this kind of muddled accusation I attribute it to a failure of epistemic rationality and luminosity. Many people just aren’t able to separate in their minds a specific criticism of an action and belief about innate traits. Dismissing Eliezer as merely being incompetent at the very skills he is renowned for would seem more insulting than simply concluding that he is being deliberately disingenuous.
So noted because I was a bit unhappy at how the conversation suddenly got steered there.
My suggestion is that Eliezer would be best served by not bringing the conversation here repeatedly. It sends all sorts of signals of incompetence. That ‘unhappy’ feeling is there to help him learn from his mistakes.
I also observe that wedrifid’s opinion of you doesn’t appear to be steered with equal expected posterior probability in light of how you react versus his predictions of your reactions.
I’m curious as to whether I’m on to something there, or whether I just pulled something random and my intuitions are wrong.
I also observe that wedrifid’s opinion of you doesn’t appear to be steered with equal expected posterior probability in light of how you react versus his predictions of your reactions.
I can’t even decipher what it is you are accusing wedrifid of here. Apart from being wrong and biased somehow.
On pain of paradox, a low probability of seeing strong evidence in one direction must be balanced by a high probability of observing weak counterevidence in the other direction.
This rule did not seem respected in what little I’ve seen of interactions between you and Eliezer, and I was looking for external feedback and evidence (one way or another) for this hypothesis, to see if there is a valid body of evidence justifying the selection of this hypothesis for consideration or if that simply happened out of bias and inappropriate heuristics.
I suspect that, if the latter, then there was probably an erroneous pattern-matching to the examples given in the related blogpost on the subject (and other examples I have seen of this kind of erroneous thinking).
I don’t know how to submit this stuff for feedback and review without using a specific “accusation” or wasting a lot of time creating (and double-checking for consistency) elaborating complex counterfactual scenarios.
I observe that wedifrid has taken advantage of this particular opportunity to remind everyone that he thinks I am belligerent, whiny, condescending, and cynical.
(So noted because I was a bit unhappy at how the conversation suddenly got steered there.)
I notice that my criticism was made specifically regarding the exhibition of those behaviors in the comments he has made about the subject he has brought up here. We can even see that I made specific links. Eliezer seems to be conflating this with a declaration that he has those features as part of his innate disposition.
By saying that wedrifid is reminding people that he (supposedly) believes Eliezer has those dispositions he also implies that wedrifid has said this previously. This is odd because I find myself to be fairly open with making criticisms of Eliezer whenever I feel them justified and from what I recall “belligerent, whiny, condescending, and cynical [about the lesswrong community]” isn’t remotely like a list of weaknesses that I actually have described Eliezer as having in general or at any particular time that I recall.
Usually when people make this kind of muddled accusation I attribute it to a failure of epistemic rationality and luminosity. Many people just aren’t able to separate in their minds a specific criticism of an action and belief about innate traits. Dismissing Eliezer as merely being incompetent at the very skills he is renowned for would seem more insulting than simply concluding that he is being deliberately disingenuous.
My suggestion is that Eliezer would be best served by not bringing the conversation here repeatedly. It sends all sorts of signals of incompetence. That ‘unhappy’ feeling is there to help him learn from his mistakes.
If that bothers you, you may consider that whining that people find you whiny might not be the optimal strategy for making them change their mind.
I also observe that wedrifid’s opinion of you doesn’t appear to be steered with equal expected posterior probability in light of how you react versus his predictions of your reactions.
I’m curious as to whether I’m on to something there, or whether I just pulled something random and my intuitions are wrong.
I can’t even decipher what it is you are accusing wedrifid of here. Apart from being wrong and biased somehow.
I’m referring to a specific part of bayesian updating, conservation of expected evidence. Specifically:
This rule did not seem respected in what little I’ve seen of interactions between you and Eliezer, and I was looking for external feedback and evidence (one way or another) for this hypothesis, to see if there is a valid body of evidence justifying the selection of this hypothesis for consideration or if that simply happened out of bias and inappropriate heuristics.
I suspect that, if the latter, then there was probably an erroneous pattern-matching to the examples given in the related blogpost on the subject (and other examples I have seen of this kind of erroneous thinking).
I don’t know how to submit this stuff for feedback and review without using a specific “accusation” or wasting a lot of time creating (and double-checking for consistency) elaborating complex counterfactual scenarios.