I personally would like better working conditions for everyone. I live in the real world.
But you would also like everyone to not complain about the working conditions they currently have? Ending people’s complaints requires an even more magical solution than ending porn or prostitution.
Why don’t you say to yourself “People complain. Deal.”
They chose the work. Given real world economic realities, I’m not sure I see the problem.
Reality includes the fact that people are free to argue about whether reality sucks and how to improve it. So what’s your problem? Why are you so okay with every “real” aspect of the labour market, except the fact that in the real world people can also complain about the labour market?
The whole subthread started with you saying “Deal.” While others still discussed the “is” of the matter, you leaped to an unsupported “ought”. Whether from a consequentialist or a deontologist perspective, you demanded a particular course of action which you don’t remotely prove by saying “this is the labour market” nor even by “they chose it”—both “is” statements which can’t by themselves build an “ought”.
I didn’t mean literally don’t complain ever, that’s silly and I never said that. There is a certain extent to which I think that if you have immediate control over something you should just shut up and do, but that wasn’t what I meant either.
All employment is comodification of human time, and therefore objectification of human beings. Part of living in the real world is making peace with that. The fact that people want to single out porn is silliness. That’s what I meant. Is this really what this whole conversation has been about?
All employment is comodification of human time, and therefore objectification of human beings. Part of living in the real world is making peace with that. The fact that people want to single out porn is silliness. That’s what I meant. Is this really what this whole conversation has been about?
Yes. If you had said “All employment is comodification of human time, and therefore objectification of human beings. Part of living in the real world is making peace with that. The fact that people want to single out porn is silliness.” this would allow people to respond e.g. why they might consider porn a worse form of objectification, or e.g. agree with you and nonetheless continue discussing what a society might do with alleviating the problems of objectification in employment in general.
Saying on the other hand “It’s the labour market. Deal.” is nothing but a rude conversation-stopper, which attempts to stifle discussion without actually making any coherent argument one could respond to. It fell so much beneath the standards of a LessWrong discussion that it wasn’t even funny.
It fell so much beneath the standards of a LessWrong discussion that it wasn’t even funny.
I totally agree with your stated point, and you made the point well. But the function of the quoted sentence is winning a status contest, not advancing your argument. The post would be vastly stronger without it.
But you would also like everyone to not complain about the working conditions they currently have? Ending people’s complaints requires an even more magical solution than ending porn or prostitution.
Why don’t you say to yourself “People complain. Deal.”
Reality includes the fact that people are free to argue about whether reality sucks and how to improve it. So what’s your problem? Why are you so okay with every “real” aspect of the labour market, except the fact that in the real world people can also complain about the labour market?
The whole subthread started with you saying “Deal.” While others still discussed the “is” of the matter, you leaped to an unsupported “ought”. Whether from a consequentialist or a deontologist perspective, you demanded a particular course of action which you don’t remotely prove by saying “this is the labour market” nor even by “they chose it”—both “is” statements which can’t by themselves build an “ought”.
I didn’t mean literally don’t complain ever, that’s silly and I never said that. There is a certain extent to which I think that if you have immediate control over something you should just shut up and do, but that wasn’t what I meant either.
All employment is comodification of human time, and therefore objectification of human beings. Part of living in the real world is making peace with that. The fact that people want to single out porn is silliness. That’s what I meant. Is this really what this whole conversation has been about?
Yes. If you had said “All employment is comodification of human time, and therefore objectification of human beings. Part of living in the real world is making peace with that. The fact that people want to single out porn is silliness.” this would allow people to respond e.g. why they might consider porn a worse form of objectification, or e.g. agree with you and nonetheless continue discussing what a society might do with alleviating the problems of objectification in employment in general.
Saying on the other hand “It’s the labour market. Deal.” is nothing but a rude conversation-stopper, which attempts to stifle discussion without actually making any coherent argument one could respond to. It fell so much beneath the standards of a LessWrong discussion that it wasn’t even funny.
In the spirit of constructive criticism:
I totally agree with your stated point, and you made the point well. But the function of the quoted sentence is winning a status contest, not advancing your argument. The post would be vastly stronger without it.
I thought the point was clear. Apparently, I was wrong.
If you found it was rude, it’s because I found the point silly, obvious, and really not worth the time. And here I find shortcuts make long delays.
Porn workers are objectified in a way library workers aren’t.