Technically, both pirates and ninjas, as they are depicted in popular folklore, are fictional entities.
We already specified that we aren’t talking about the fictional entities. We’re talking wikipedia pirates and wikipedia ninjas. That’s what you get by default if you taboo ‘real’.
Thus, before we can answer your question, we need to nail down exactly what you mean by “pirates” and “ninjas”; what capabilities you expect these fictional combatants to possess, and then go from there.
As far as I’m concerned the question is trivially resolved to an answerable counterfactual, even more trivially answered and in general a solved problem. The whole “spin it into a deep question of ambiguity and definition” is one of the first things I discarded as part of the “ACTUALLY try to answer the question” part daenerys’s game under “Being proud of clever retorts, etc.”
It is my evaluation that a group who does not execute the reasoning within the minute or so allotted:
We’re talking wikipedia pirates and wikipedia ninjas.
As far as I understand, these two groups have never fought each other in any engagement, having neither the motivation nor the skills to do so. I cannot envision a realistic and deliberate ninja vs. pirate engagement, unless one or both of the parties were drunk or stoned out of their minds. Naturally, I’d assumed you were talking about fictional scenarios.
And, according to my analysis of daenerys’ game this constitutes an all too common failure mode for the aforementioned reasons. My estimation of the capabilities of lesswrong participants to handle this sort of question was grossly misscalibrated.
It sounds like you’re saying, “no one is smart enough to comprehend my brilliant point, despite the fact that it’s 100% clear and obvious since I am such a great communicator”. I believe there may be alternative explanations for people disagreeing with you, however...
It sounds like you’re saying, “no one is smart enough to comprehend my brilliant point, despite the fact that it’s 100% clear and obvious since I am such a great communicator”.
If I said something that means that then I am indeed as bad at communicating as you insinuate. I actually maintain that I haven’t made much of a point at all and thought that my initial claim verged on patronizing for stating the obvious.
I also note that the problem isn’t that “no one comprehends”… from what I have seen most people here do. It is a matter of whether there are enough exceptions that the conversation can still get derailed into failure modes. Surely you at least agree that the conversation in this thread has been derailed at places? For example, this immediate context appears to include fairly unadorned indicators of disrespect. Nobody likes to hear those—even when they are plain and sincere expressions of the level of disagreement.
and thought that my initial claim verged on patronizing for stating the obvious.
What’s obvious to one person may sound ridiculous to another. Often does, in fact.
Surely you at least agree that the conversation in this thread has been derailed at places?
What, do you mean the original thread, or the pirate vs. ninja thread ? Heh. Anyway, the answer is “yes” to both.
For example, this immediate context appears to include fairly unadorned indicators of disrespect.
Patronizing posts tend to invoke that kind of an atmosphere. In any case, you keep saying that disagreeing with your conclusions is a “failure mode”. You may well be right, but so far, I’m not convinced that this is the case. I am prepared to be convinced, however.
We already specified that we aren’t talking about the fictional entities. We’re talking wikipedia pirates and wikipedia ninjas. That’s what you get by default if you taboo ‘real’.
As far as I’m concerned the question is trivially resolved to an answerable counterfactual, even more trivially answered and in general a solved problem. The whole “spin it into a deep question of ambiguity and definition” is one of the first things I discarded as part of the “ACTUALLY try to answer the question” part daenerys’s game under “Being proud of clever retorts, etc.”
It is my evaluation that a group who does not execute the reasoning within the minute or so allotted:
Ninjas vs pirates?
These guys vs these guys.
Ninjas
Next question.
… has simply failed at the rationalist game and requires more practice.
As far as I understand, these two groups have never fought each other in any engagement, having neither the motivation nor the skills to do so. I cannot envision a realistic and deliberate ninja vs. pirate engagement, unless one or both of the parties were drunk or stoned out of their minds. Naturally, I’d assumed you were talking about fictional scenarios.
And, according to my analysis of daenerys’ game this constitutes an all too common failure mode for the aforementioned reasons. My estimation of the capabilities of lesswrong participants to handle this sort of question was grossly misscalibrated.
It sounds like you’re saying, “no one is smart enough to comprehend my brilliant point, despite the fact that it’s 100% clear and obvious since I am such a great communicator”. I believe there may be alternative explanations for people disagreeing with you, however...
If I said something that means that then I am indeed as bad at communicating as you insinuate. I actually maintain that I haven’t made much of a point at all and thought that my initial claim verged on patronizing for stating the obvious.
I also note that the problem isn’t that “no one comprehends”… from what I have seen most people here do. It is a matter of whether there are enough exceptions that the conversation can still get derailed into failure modes. Surely you at least agree that the conversation in this thread has been derailed at places? For example, this immediate context appears to include fairly unadorned indicators of disrespect. Nobody likes to hear those—even when they are plain and sincere expressions of the level of disagreement.
What’s obvious to one person may sound ridiculous to another. Often does, in fact.
What, do you mean the original thread, or the pirate vs. ninja thread ? Heh. Anyway, the answer is “yes” to both.
Patronizing posts tend to invoke that kind of an atmosphere. In any case, you keep saying that disagreeing with your conclusions is a “failure mode”. You may well be right, but so far, I’m not convinced that this is the case. I am prepared to be convinced, however.