I am 18 years old, somewhat new to LW and not as congruent/rational as desired. If your offer stands for others who are not under 18, I’d love to hear about that. I could use some help.
I do not think there is a need make LW more accessible to teenagers. I am not even sure I know what that means. Are we, those younger, that alien? (rethorical question) “Teenage” is a joke. Not as funny as religion, though. (A 12 years old is sitting at a bar with coworkers after a long day of work, 150 years ago: normal) As far as a I am concerned the differences between “teenagers” and adults are from age segregation. Differences in style, not principles.
Upvoted. I am always surprised how widespread discrimination against teenagers is, considering that everyone has to be one at some point. Every difference between people below the age of majority, and people above which an adult has been able to point out to me when I have discussed this seems to be a product of the culture we are raised in, not an inherent quality of humans within an arbitrary age range.
You might be interested in reading The Case Against Adolescence by Dr. Robert Epstein. (I believe the last edition is called Teen 2.0)
It is eye-opening on many aspects. There is a story in it that struck me. A twelve year old had an affair with his married teacher (who had two kids on her own). She went to prison for two-three years. Once out of the slammer, she had sex again with her ex-pupil. This time around 7-8 years of prison. While in prison she gave birth to a child. The child was raised by the father (the student) and that father’s mother.
Reporters asked the young man if the imprisoned woman had abused of him; he answered negatively, that love united them. Once the ex-teacher got out of prison for the second time she married the then adult lover, went into their car with their kid and rolled into the sunset.
How immature. Both of them. Love at teenage? Meh. Love is only for old people like Romeo (~16) and Juliet. (~14) Those crazy homo sapiens.
12 seems too young to me for a sexual relationship, but that may be due to social conditioning.
On average, males become capable of reproduction when they reach 12-13. (which probably is also when they become capable of enjoying it) If he was willingly involved there should not be an issue, but the general assumption seems to be that if someone in early puberty already is having sex, (particularly with an adult) they are being threatened or coerced into it.
To make matters more complicated, I have heard of cases where children willingly were in a relationship like what you mentioned, and then condemned the adult under parental pressure.
the flip side of the argument for protecting children is that since older teens and adults can also be forced to have sex against their will, how can we remove restrictions at any age? having stronger muscles and a bit more experience is of limited use if someone threatens you with a gun.
I don’t know if I can actually come to an opinion on whether we should have an age of consent to shelter children, (even the ones who may want to have sex) or assume that anyone who has reached puberty is mature enough to have a relationship, and tell someone if they are being abused. I probably have not collected enough information at this point :p
There are driver’s licenses how about sex’ licenses? (minus the minimal age requirement) You have to show your ability to have sane sex through a written test and a practical test. Or something.
My hope is that means “correct use of contraceptives.”
My problem with a ‘qualification’ to go through a rite of passage is that the rite of passage is what turns you from unqualified to qualified. When can we trust someone to make decisions about sex? When they’re not a virgin.
And so we either need hard control (no sex until your wedding night with the socially approved partner) or little-no control combined with acceptance of mistakes (regretting your choice for your first time is commonplace). The idea that a licensing agency could differentiate between people that will make good and bad choices about sex is as ridiculous as the idea that a licensing agency could differentiate between people that will make good and bad choices about driving. The future is too uncertain to have good predictive ability.
Errr.… I’m an not sure how exactly that would work. People already are taught how to use contraception from an early age, (maybe not young enough though), and the rest of what you need to know appears to be instinctive.
My question was how could you have a country with no age limit for consent which does not become a refuge for child predators.
If a child wants to have sex with someone older, it should not be an issue, and if the child is forced into it, then it is rape whether there is an age of consent or not. So as long as children are encouraged to speak out if they are being forced into sex, having an age limit may be unnecessary. Nobody here has actually argued in favour of an age of consent yet, which I find interesting. Does it have any benefits compared to only punishing adults who have been proven to act without a child’s consent?
I don’t know if I can actually come to an opinion on whether we should have an age of consent to shelter children, (even the ones who may want to have sex)
One option would be to allow it but require that the younger individual specify the desire publicly in a suitable manner.
A twelve year old had an affair [...] How immature. Both of them. Love at teenage? Meh. Love is only for old people like Romeo (~16) and Juliet. (~14) Those crazy homo sapiens.
I am 18 years old, somewhat new to LW and not as congruent/rational as desired. If your offer stands for others who are not under 18, I’d love to hear about that. I could use some help.
I do not think there is a need make LW more accessible to teenagers. I am not even sure I know what that means. Are we, those younger, that alien? (rethorical question) “Teenage” is a joke. Not as funny as religion, though. (A 12 years old is sitting at a bar with coworkers after a long day of work, 150 years ago: normal) As far as a I am concerned the differences between “teenagers” and adults are from age segregation. Differences in style, not principles.
That said, I am new. To the Welcome page!
Upvoted. I am always surprised how widespread discrimination against teenagers is, considering that everyone has to be one at some point. Every difference between people below the age of majority, and people above which an adult has been able to point out to me when I have discussed this seems to be a product of the culture we are raised in, not an inherent quality of humans within an arbitrary age range.
You might be interested in reading The Case Against Adolescence by Dr. Robert Epstein. (I believe the last edition is called Teen 2.0)
It is eye-opening on many aspects. There is a story in it that struck me. A twelve year old had an affair with his married teacher (who had two kids on her own). She went to prison for two-three years. Once out of the slammer, she had sex again with her ex-pupil. This time around 7-8 years of prison. While in prison she gave birth to a child. The child was raised by the father (the student) and that father’s mother. Reporters asked the young man if the imprisoned woman had abused of him; he answered negatively, that love united them. Once the ex-teacher got out of prison for the second time she married the then adult lover, went into their car with their kid and rolled into the sunset.
How immature. Both of them. Love at teenage? Meh. Love is only for old people like Romeo (~16) and Juliet. (~14) Those crazy homo sapiens.
12 seems too young to me for a sexual relationship, but that may be due to social conditioning. On average, males become capable of reproduction when they reach 12-13. (which probably is also when they become capable of enjoying it) If he was willingly involved there should not be an issue, but the general assumption seems to be that if someone in early puberty already is having sex, (particularly with an adult) they are being threatened or coerced into it. To make matters more complicated, I have heard of cases where children willingly were in a relationship like what you mentioned, and then condemned the adult under parental pressure.
the flip side of the argument for protecting children is that since older teens and adults can also be forced to have sex against their will, how can we remove restrictions at any age? having stronger muscles and a bit more experience is of limited use if someone threatens you with a gun.
I don’t know if I can actually come to an opinion on whether we should have an age of consent to shelter children, (even the ones who may want to have sex) or assume that anyone who has reached puberty is mature enough to have a relationship, and tell someone if they are being abused. I probably have not collected enough information at this point :p
There are driver’s licenses how about sex’ licenses? (minus the minimal age requirement) You have to show your ability to have sane sex through a written test and a practical test. Or something.
Ummmmm.
Much like the job of ruler or king, anyone who wants the job is disqualified.
My hope is that means “correct use of contraceptives.”
My problem with a ‘qualification’ to go through a rite of passage is that the rite of passage is what turns you from unqualified to qualified. When can we trust someone to make decisions about sex? When they’re not a virgin.
And so we either need hard control (no sex until your wedding night with the socially approved partner) or little-no control combined with acceptance of mistakes (regretting your choice for your first time is commonplace). The idea that a licensing agency could differentiate between people that will make good and bad choices about sex is as ridiculous as the idea that a licensing agency could differentiate between people that will make good and bad choices about driving. The future is too uncertain to have good predictive ability.
Errr.… I’m an not sure how exactly that would work. People already are taught how to use contraception from an early age, (maybe not young enough though), and the rest of what you need to know appears to be instinctive. My question was how could you have a country with no age limit for consent which does not become a refuge for child predators. If a child wants to have sex with someone older, it should not be an issue, and if the child is forced into it, then it is rape whether there is an age of consent or not. So as long as children are encouraged to speak out if they are being forced into sex, having an age limit may be unnecessary. Nobody here has actually argued in favour of an age of consent yet, which I find interesting. Does it have any benefits compared to only punishing adults who have been proven to act without a child’s consent?
One option would be to allow it but require that the younger individual specify the desire publicly in a suitable manner.
Well, technically… ;)