The problem, as I see it, is that even that link still doesn’t have any hint of wanting to be with a particular woman because of her individual qualities.
Hm. I guess you missed the part where fully one-third of the program being sold is devoted exclusively to cultivating curiosity about, and appreciation for “her individual qualities.” ;-)
That being said, from a marketing perspective, there’s no need to discuss what qualities the reader is looking for, since those will be distinct to the individual reader. Instead, the copy assumes only that they be women that the reader wants to have a deeper connection with.
(I’m not sure about the testimonials on that page, but I have seen others on the site from men who purchased some of this company’s programs in order to improve their connection with a girlfriend or spouse.)
An important piece of background info, by the way. The number one question received by PUA trainers, or asked on PUA forums, etc. is, “How can I get that one girl I like?” (followed by, “How can I get back that girl I like that I blew it with?”)
What guys actually want, and what they like to signal to other guys that they want, aren’t always the same thing. ;-)
One reason, btw, that PUA marketing often emphasizes ability to attract multiple women, has nothing to do with how many women the average man actually wants! One of my mentors in direct marketing once explained to me that the reason you want to make the boldest, most over-the-top claims that you can still support/prove, is because the average person reads the claim and thinks, “wow, if it’ll do that, then for [my much smaller need/want] it ought to work easily!”
In other words, bold or exaggerated marketing claims are not made because the average reader needs the result shown, but rather, because they give the reader something to discount back down to the level of the reader’s own requirements!
If you look at most effective (i.e mostly direct) marketing, you’ll see this principle being used all over the place… for example, most of us do not need to glue ourselves to a girder via a hard hat, yet Krazy Glue nonetheless used that as a product demonstration. The intention is for the viewer to infer, “if it’ll do that, then it should be good enough for what I need.”
It was interesting—and new to me (you may have mentioned it, though)-- that in this version, the crucial thing wasn’t status markers, it was moment-by-moment connection.
There is some (minor) overlap between theories, in the sense that you could say the qualities that AMP are teaching are status markers of a sort. But I think it’s actually more likely to be the other way around: i.e. that it’s these qualities themselves (presence, appreciation, and integrity) that are evolutionarily desirable/attractive and lead to having status, rather than status leading to having these qualities, or these qualities being status signals.
That being said, from a marketing perspective, there’s no need to discuss what qualities the reader is looking for, since those will be distinct to the individual reader.
Right. There is only so much that PUA materials can even say about individual women. Dealing with individual women and taking into account her personal characteristics is the job of the PUA, not of the PUA teacher. All the teacher can do is give the PUA a set of tools, and give the PUA the task of customizing those tools and figuring out which tools apply to which women.
One reason, btw, that PUA marketing often emphasizes ability to attract multiple women, has nothing to do with how many women the average man actually wants!
That’s a good point. I think it’s true for other reasons, also. A lot of men would like to have a relationship with women of a similar level of looks and intelligence, yet those women are out of reach. To be able to have a relationship, these men need more choices in women.
Dating multiple women may or may not be the goal, but the right goal to aspire to is to have a high enough level of attractiveness that multiple women will want to date you, even if you only want a long-term relationship with one woman. If you want to date women with multiple men after them, then you need to be the sort of guy who has multiple women after you. More choices in women gives you more relationship prospects.
An important piece of background info, by the way. The number one question received by PUA trainers, or asked on PUA forums, etc. is, “How can I get that one girl I like?” (followed by, “How can I get back that girl I like that I blew it with?”)
For men who are unsuccessful with women, “How can I get that one girl I like?” is sort of the wrong question. It’s like someone who’s never played the violin asking “how do I play the Brahms violin concerto?” or someone with no startup experience asking “how do I get acquired by Google?” The mistake in these questions is trying to solve a certain problem before having an understanding of the fundamentals involved in solving problems of that type.
As I pointed out to Nancy, developing a model of people from the ground-up, on-the-fly every time you interact with someone is not scalable. Trying to give a woman a personalized experience that way is usually going to give her a crappy experience because you spend most of the time blundering around out of a misplaced fear of being “impersonal” or “stereotyping” (because heuristically, the search space of possible behaviors is much larger than the space of attractive behaviors). Instead, start with a framework of priors based on any similarity you can see between her and other women you’ve interacted with in the past, and update them on-the-fly by watching for feedback; that’s the real way to create a personalized experience for a woman in a way that actually works.
The reality is that most of the time in social interaction, other people who meet you probably make up their mind about you before you have much chance to get to know them as a person and update your beliefs about them very much. As a result, your process for making a good first impression cannot be dependent on having very much personalized knowledge. If you do, you will just be way too slow. People aren’t going to still for several hours and tell you their life stories, listen to yours, and only then decide their impression of you.
While I do think it’s very important that PUAs update their beliefs about individual women during interactions with them, it’s absolutely correct for them to begin by applying “impersonal” knowledge about large groups of women. PUAs have the right idea, even if their updating and references classes aren’t as sophisticated as they could be.
An important piece of background info, by the way. The number one question received by PUA trainers, or asked on PUA forums, etc. is, “How can I get that one girl I like?” (followed by, “How can I get back that girl I like that I blew it with?”)
Which explains the number one answer in at least some of those circles: GFTOW! (And the number one moral—quit being so goddam needy!)
Hm. I guess you missed the part where fully one-third of the program being sold is devoted exclusively to cultivating curiosity about, and appreciation for “her individual qualities.” ;-)
That being said, from a marketing perspective, there’s no need to discuss what qualities the reader is looking for, since those will be distinct to the individual reader. Instead, the copy assumes only that they be women that the reader wants to have a deeper connection with.
(I’m not sure about the testimonials on that page, but I have seen others on the site from men who purchased some of this company’s programs in order to improve their connection with a girlfriend or spouse.)
An important piece of background info, by the way. The number one question received by PUA trainers, or asked on PUA forums, etc. is, “How can I get that one girl I like?” (followed by, “How can I get back that girl I like that I blew it with?”)
What guys actually want, and what they like to signal to other guys that they want, aren’t always the same thing. ;-)
One reason, btw, that PUA marketing often emphasizes ability to attract multiple women, has nothing to do with how many women the average man actually wants! One of my mentors in direct marketing once explained to me that the reason you want to make the boldest, most over-the-top claims that you can still support/prove, is because the average person reads the claim and thinks, “wow, if it’ll do that, then for [my much smaller need/want] it ought to work easily!”
In other words, bold or exaggerated marketing claims are not made because the average reader needs the result shown, but rather, because they give the reader something to discount back down to the level of the reader’s own requirements!
If you look at most effective (i.e mostly direct) marketing, you’ll see this principle being used all over the place… for example, most of us do not need to glue ourselves to a girder via a hard hat, yet Krazy Glue nonetheless used that as a product demonstration. The intention is for the viewer to infer, “if it’ll do that, then it should be good enough for what I need.”
There is some (minor) overlap between theories, in the sense that you could say the qualities that AMP are teaching are status markers of a sort. But I think it’s actually more likely to be the other way around: i.e. that it’s these qualities themselves (presence, appreciation, and integrity) that are evolutionarily desirable/attractive and lead to having status, rather than status leading to having these qualities, or these qualities being status signals.
Right. There is only so much that PUA materials can even say about individual women. Dealing with individual women and taking into account her personal characteristics is the job of the PUA, not of the PUA teacher. All the teacher can do is give the PUA a set of tools, and give the PUA the task of customizing those tools and figuring out which tools apply to which women.
That’s a good point. I think it’s true for other reasons, also. A lot of men would like to have a relationship with women of a similar level of looks and intelligence, yet those women are out of reach. To be able to have a relationship, these men need more choices in women.
Dating multiple women may or may not be the goal, but the right goal to aspire to is to have a high enough level of attractiveness that multiple women will want to date you, even if you only want a long-term relationship with one woman. If you want to date women with multiple men after them, then you need to be the sort of guy who has multiple women after you. More choices in women gives you more relationship prospects.
For men who are unsuccessful with women, “How can I get that one girl I like?” is sort of the wrong question. It’s like someone who’s never played the violin asking “how do I play the Brahms violin concerto?” or someone with no startup experience asking “how do I get acquired by Google?” The mistake in these questions is trying to solve a certain problem before having an understanding of the fundamentals involved in solving problems of that type.
As I pointed out to Nancy, developing a model of people from the ground-up, on-the-fly every time you interact with someone is not scalable. Trying to give a woman a personalized experience that way is usually going to give her a crappy experience because you spend most of the time blundering around out of a misplaced fear of being “impersonal” or “stereotyping” (because heuristically, the search space of possible behaviors is much larger than the space of attractive behaviors). Instead, start with a framework of priors based on any similarity you can see between her and other women you’ve interacted with in the past, and update them on-the-fly by watching for feedback; that’s the real way to create a personalized experience for a woman in a way that actually works.
The reality is that most of the time in social interaction, other people who meet you probably make up their mind about you before you have much chance to get to know them as a person and update your beliefs about them very much. As a result, your process for making a good first impression cannot be dependent on having very much personalized knowledge. If you do, you will just be way too slow. People aren’t going to still for several hours and tell you their life stories, listen to yours, and only then decide their impression of you.
While I do think it’s very important that PUAs update their beliefs about individual women during interactions with them, it’s absolutely correct for them to begin by applying “impersonal” knowledge about large groups of women. PUAs have the right idea, even if their updating and references classes aren’t as sophisticated as they could be.
Not to mention anchoring the consumer’s perception of actual quality.
Which explains the number one answer in at least some of those circles: GFTOW! (And the number one moral—quit being so goddam needy!)