But you overestimate agriculture’s effect on population size. In 1492, a substantial fraction of New World societies were foragers who were approximately as civilized as Europe. I don’t see good evidence about their population size, but based on info from the books 1491 and The Dawn of Everything, there were probably 10s of millions of foragers who lived better lives than European farmers.
Also, see my comments here about why I reject the repugnant conclusion.
In 1492, a substantial fraction of New World societies were foragers who were approximately as civilized as Europe.
I thought the ‘approximately as civilized as Europe’ parts of the New World were basically all agricultural? Like, more than half of the native population lived in Mexico and the Andes, both of which were populated mostly by farmers instead of foragers; the cities in North America that I’m familiar with (like Cahokia) were also the product of farming cultures. The ‘Salmon People’ of the Pacific Northwest are a bit difficult to classify, but seem more like farmers than foragers to me (and also like they were probably at the bottom end of the range, or below, the ‘approximately as civilized as Europe’ group).
If you’re counting ‘societies’ instead of ‘people’ then I think the measure is heavily tilted in favor of smaller societies, as farming societies are more likely to fuse and grow; for example, the formation of the Iroquois League, which seems to be related to the adoption of agriculture, turned five societies into one society (at least the way that I look at things).
The Dawn of Everything calls the “fisher kings” of the pacific northwest foragers, and also the “protestant foragers” who lived in what’s now California. I don’t see much info about their population density.
I’m about halfway through the book, and I’m unsure how much to trust it.
I was also including the foragers who built Poverty Point (a structure about 1⁄3 the size of the Burning Man area), but I see now that they were no longer around in 1500.
The book also indicates that many regions, particularly in Amazonia, are hard to classify, because they did small amounts of “play farming”, without getting much food that way.
There is substantial disagreement about New World population levels. Maddison seems to have written before 1491 publicized evidence that smallpox killed most people there before Europeans made much contact with them. I used the estimate of 100 million that I got from 1491′s Wikipedia page, but that’s likely near the high end of expert guesses.
I agree with a fair amount of this post.
But you overestimate agriculture’s effect on population size. In 1492, a substantial fraction of New World societies were foragers who were approximately as civilized as Europe. I don’t see good evidence about their population size, but based on info from the books 1491 and The Dawn of Everything, there were probably 10s of millions of foragers who lived better lives than European farmers.
Also, see my comments here about why I reject the repugnant conclusion.
I thought the ‘approximately as civilized as Europe’ parts of the New World were basically all agricultural? Like, more than half of the native population lived in Mexico and the Andes, both of which were populated mostly by farmers instead of foragers; the cities in North America that I’m familiar with (like Cahokia) were also the product of farming cultures. The ‘Salmon People’ of the Pacific Northwest are a bit difficult to classify, but seem more like farmers than foragers to me (and also like they were probably at the bottom end of the range, or below, the ‘approximately as civilized as Europe’ group).
If you’re counting ‘societies’ instead of ‘people’ then I think the measure is heavily tilted in favor of smaller societies, as farming societies are more likely to fuse and grow; for example, the formation of the Iroquois League, which seems to be related to the adoption of agriculture, turned five societies into one society (at least the way that I look at things).
The Dawn of Everything calls the “fisher kings” of the pacific northwest foragers, and also the “protestant foragers” who lived in what’s now California. I don’t see much info about their population density.
I’m about halfway through the book, and I’m unsure how much to trust it.
I was also including the foragers who built Poverty Point (a structure about 1⁄3 the size of the Burning Man area), but I see now that they were no longer around in 1500.
The book also indicates that many regions, particularly in Amazonia, are hard to classify, because they did small amounts of “play farming”, without getting much food that way.
I don’t know about population sizes either. Maddison (cited at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimates_of_historical_world_population#By_world_region) says that in 1500, Americans were only about 4% of global population, with 20% being in Europe and 68% in Asia.
There is substantial disagreement about New World population levels. Maddison seems to have written before 1491 publicized evidence that smallpox killed most people there before Europeans made much contact with them. I used the estimate of 100 million that I got from 1491′s Wikipedia page, but that’s likely near the high end of expert guesses.