Yes, to various extents. (I should have been more helpful in the grandparent comment.)
I think the main problem is you seem to have a “stream of consciousness” style of writing. If you add an additional step of editing after (I’m just assuming you’re not doing much of this now), then you can figure out which points are most important to make and put them succinctly.
The advantage of this, from a utilitarian point of view, is that you can spend less time editing than it will take any particular person to otherwise figure out what you’re trying to say, and thus cause a net benefit to lots of people.
(ETA: note that the great-grandparent comment seems less subject to this particular criticism than some others)
As I was writing the following points, I noticed that I was just making excuses. But instead of deleting them, I left them in, but commented on them, because they felt important and relevant.
I was already aware of the utilitarian argument that it’s worth 1 minute of effort at rewriting in order to save 60 people one second each at reading, and I am making at least some attempt to do that. (correction: no, I didn’t actually do the math. I should at least try to do the math.)
I already spend lots of time reviewing my comments before I post them. I don’t post them until I scan through them once without noticing anything wrong. (correction: no, lately I’ve been posting them before I complete a full scan without finding any new issues, and I’ve been fixing some things by editing the comments after posting them. I should be more strict about following this rule. and as I mention below, I should add new issues to the list of things to scan for.)
Normally I have the opposite problem, spending way too much time reviewing what I wrote, which ends up resulting in other important things not getting said, because I’m spending too much time reviewing and never get around to writing the next thing. (correction: this will probably become less of an issue now that I’ve finished writing all of these “about me” comments.)
It usually feels like there’s a sense of urgency, that if I take too long to write a reply, then everyone will have moved on to other topics, and noone will end up reading my comment. (correction: sometimes there is a reason to post stuff asap, other times there isn’t. I need to learn how to tell the difference.)
But these are just excuses. If I’m going to continue posting comments, then I had better learn how to improve the quality of my comments.
The stream-of-consciousness style comments were something I wanted feedback on, and now I got the feedback, thanks. The feedback says that stream-of-consciousness-style comments are not acceptable. I’ll try to stop doing that.
And that means that in addition to the issues I’m already scanning for, I’ll also scan for… the specific reasons why stream-of-consciousness-style writing is annoying to read:
I need to present the points in the order that would make the most sense to the reader, not in just whatever order I happen to think of them in.
I need to erase points that I discover make no sense, rather than leaving them in just because it feels like there may be some reason to document the mistake.
I need to cut out off-topic side-comments entirely
I need to stop using phrases like “oh, by the way”
I need to cut out any meta-comments from inside my comments, unless for some reason they really are necessary
I especially need to cut out any comments about things like “my brain’s excuse-generator”. I need to remove the offending text, rather than explaining what caused me to write it. Unless it happens to be specifically on-topic, like in this comment.
probably some more things I haven’t thought of.
But so far that just answers what to do about the stream-of-consciousness-style writing. It doesn’t answer what to do about the excessive length of the comments. This comment is also really long, but I’m posting it anyway, because it feels necessary.
Actually, I should ask what everyone else does. Or maybe I should ask just what you, in particular do, Thom. Though this is already far off the original post’s topic...
The “excuse generator” points at something I suspect is a very fast and active part of a lot of people’s minds, but it’s probably worth a post or at least an extended open thread comment of its own.
As far as I can tell, I write so as to make things clear to the state of mind I was in just before I thought of something I’m trying to get across.
Thanks for the feedback, that last sentence sounds like a good idea, I’ll go ahead and try it.
There probably have already been lots posts about the “excuse generator”, though not specifically by that name. For example, Eliezer’s post Against Devil’s Advocacy Though that’s not quite the same thing.
Thanks for the feedback. I kinda suspected that my comments were too long.
So, um… what would you prefer for me to do instead?
split them into multiple comments?
post them somewhere else (the Transhumanist Wiki?) and link to them from here?
refrain from posting the long comments entirely?
find some way to cut them down?
stick to a single topic per comment, and create multiple comments if I want to discuss multiple topics?
wait longer between posting these comments?
something else I haven’t thought of?
Yes, to various extents. (I should have been more helpful in the grandparent comment.)
I think the main problem is you seem to have a “stream of consciousness” style of writing. If you add an additional step of editing after (I’m just assuming you’re not doing much of this now), then you can figure out which points are most important to make and put them succinctly.
The advantage of this, from a utilitarian point of view, is that you can spend less time editing than it will take any particular person to otherwise figure out what you’re trying to say, and thus cause a net benefit to lots of people.
(ETA: note that the great-grandparent comment seems less subject to this particular criticism than some others)
Thanks again for the feedback.
As I was writing the following points, I noticed that I was just making excuses. But instead of deleting them, I left them in, but commented on them, because they felt important and relevant.
I was already aware of the utilitarian argument that it’s worth 1 minute of effort at rewriting in order to save 60 people one second each at reading, and I am making at least some attempt to do that. (correction: no, I didn’t actually do the math. I should at least try to do the math.)
I already spend lots of time reviewing my comments before I post them. I don’t post them until I scan through them once without noticing anything wrong. (correction: no, lately I’ve been posting them before I complete a full scan without finding any new issues, and I’ve been fixing some things by editing the comments after posting them. I should be more strict about following this rule. and as I mention below, I should add new issues to the list of things to scan for.)
Normally I have the opposite problem, spending way too much time reviewing what I wrote, which ends up resulting in other important things not getting said, because I’m spending too much time reviewing and never get around to writing the next thing. (correction: this will probably become less of an issue now that I’ve finished writing all of these “about me” comments.)
It usually feels like there’s a sense of urgency, that if I take too long to write a reply, then everyone will have moved on to other topics, and noone will end up reading my comment. (correction: sometimes there is a reason to post stuff asap, other times there isn’t. I need to learn how to tell the difference.)
But these are just excuses. If I’m going to continue posting comments, then I had better learn how to improve the quality of my comments.
The stream-of-consciousness style comments were something I wanted feedback on, and now I got the feedback, thanks. The feedback says that stream-of-consciousness-style comments are not acceptable. I’ll try to stop doing that.
And that means that in addition to the issues I’m already scanning for, I’ll also scan for… the specific reasons why stream-of-consciousness-style writing is annoying to read:
I need to present the points in the order that would make the most sense to the reader, not in just whatever order I happen to think of them in.
I need to erase points that I discover make no sense, rather than leaving them in just because it feels like there may be some reason to document the mistake.
I need to cut out off-topic side-comments entirely
I need to stop using phrases like “oh, by the way”
I need to cut out any meta-comments from inside my comments, unless for some reason they really are necessary
I especially need to cut out any comments about things like “my brain’s excuse-generator”. I need to remove the offending text, rather than explaining what caused me to write it. Unless it happens to be specifically on-topic, like in this comment.
probably some more things I haven’t thought of.
But so far that just answers what to do about the stream-of-consciousness-style writing. It doesn’t answer what to do about the excessive length of the comments. This comment is also really long, but I’m posting it anyway, because it feels necessary.
Actually, I should ask what everyone else does. Or maybe I should ask just what you, in particular do, Thom. Though this is already far off the original post’s topic...
This is probably too late, but I really love your writing style, especially your stream of consciousness.
The “excuse generator” points at something I suspect is a very fast and active part of a lot of people’s minds, but it’s probably worth a post or at least an extended open thread comment of its own.
As far as I can tell, I write so as to make things clear to the state of mind I was in just before I thought of something I’m trying to get across.
Thanks for the feedback, that last sentence sounds like a good idea, I’ll go ahead and try it.
There probably have already been lots posts about the “excuse generator”, though not specifically by that name. For example, Eliezer’s post Against Devil’s Advocacy Though that’s not quite the same thing.
And then there’s all the posts on rationalization.