Depending upon the Type of Satanist, yes, they are often just people looking for a high “Boo-Factor” (A term made-up by many of the early followers of a musical Genre called “Deathrock” (it’s more public name is now Goth, although that is like comparing a chain saw to a kitchen pealing knife—the “Goths” are the kitchen knife).
Many Satanists, especially those who hadn’t really read much of the published Satanic literature would just make something up themselves and it was almost always based in Christian motifs and archetypes. The two institutions who have publicly claimed the title of “Satanist” (The Church of Satan and The Temple of Set) both reject any and all of Christian Theology, Motifs, Archetypes, Symbolism and Characters as being ingenuous and twisted archetypes of older more healthy god archetypes (If you read Jung and Joseph Campbell, this is not uncommon for a rising religious paradigm to hijack an older competing paradigm as its bad-guys)
As Phil has suggested, maybe a front page post will come in handy. It should be recognized that some Satanists happen to be very rational people. They are just using the symbolism to manipulate their environment (although most of the more mature ones have found more mature symbols with which to manipulate the environment and their peers and subordinates).
The types to which I was referring in my post were the Christian Satanists (people who are worshiping the Christian version of Satan), which is just as bad as worshiping the Christian God. Both the Christian God and the Christian Satan are required for that mythology to be complete.
Well, they both (according to Christian Myth) are truly bad characters.
It is unfortunate for God that Satan (Lucifer) had such a reasonable request “Gee, Jehovah, It would certainly be nice if you let us try out that chair every once in a while.”
Basically, Lucifer’s crime was one that is only a crime in a state where the King is seen as having divine authority to rule, and all else is seen as beneath such things (thus reflecting the Divine Order)
It was this act upon which Modern Satanists seized to create a new mythology for Satanism, where it was reason rebelling again an order that was corrupt and tyrannical.
It is unfortunate for God that Satan (Lucifer) had such a reasonable request “Gee, Jehovah, It would certainly be nice if you let us try out that chair every once in a while.” Basically, Lucifer’s crime was one that is only a crime in a state where the King is seen as having divine authority to rule, and all else is seen as beneath such things (thus reflecting the Divine Order)
To be fair this stuff isn’t Christian mythology in the way that Adam and Eve, or Loaves and Fishes is Christian mythology. It’s just religious fiction.
...
Unless someone has declared John Milton a prophet and possessor of divine revelation. Which would be hilarious.
It isn’t stuff that made it into the modern canon, but in the Early Christian Church, Myth of this type appeared all over the place from the Jewish Sources, in an attempt to integrate it into various Christian Sects.
To be fair this stuff isn’t Christian mythology in the way that Adam and Eve, or Loaves and Fishes is Christian mythology. It’s just religious fiction.
Well, they both (according to Christian Myth) are truly bad characters.
The Christian Myth includes a quite specific definition of bad so according to the Christian myth only one of them is bad. Is what you mean that according to you the characters as described in the Christian Myth were both truly bad?
Basically, Lucifer’s crime was one that is only a crime in a state where the King is seen as having divine authority to rule
That description loses something when the ruler is, in fact, God. One of the bad things about claiming that the king is king because God says so is that it is not the case that any god said any such thing. When the ruler is God then yes, God does say so. The objection that remains is “Who gives a @$@# what God says?” I agree with what (I think) you are saying about the implications of claims of authority but don’t like the loaded language. It confuses the issue and well, I would say that technically (that counterfactual) God does have the divine authority to rule. It’s just that divine authority doesn’t count for squat in my book.
There are Christian Satanists? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Satanism was a religion founded around Rand-like rational selfishness, and explicitly denied any supernatural entities.
Yes, they are “Christian” in the sense that all of the mythology and practices for their worship of Satan are derived from Christianity, and they still believe in a Christian God.
It is just that these people believe that they are defying and opposing the Christian God (Fighting for the other team). They still believe in this God, just no longer have it as the object of their worship and devotion.
This is also the more traditional form of Satanist in our society, and one which the more modern Satanist tends to oppose. The Modern Satanist is a self-worshiping atheist, and as has been pointed out, tend to place everything in the context of self-interest. It is a highly utilitarian philosophy, but often marred in actual practice by ignorant fools who don’t seem to understand the difference between just acting like a selfish dick and acting out of self-interest (doing things which improve one’s condition in life, not things which worsen one’s condition)
There’s an Ayn Rand quote I don’t have handy to the effect that if the virtues needed for life are considered evil, people are apt to embrace actual evils in response.
Depending upon the Type of Satanist, yes, they are often just people looking for a high “Boo-Factor” (A term made-up by many of the early followers of a musical Genre called “Deathrock” (it’s more public name is now Goth, although that is like comparing a chain saw to a kitchen pealing knife—the “Goths” are the kitchen knife).
Many Satanists, especially those who hadn’t really read much of the published Satanic literature would just make something up themselves and it was almost always based in Christian motifs and archetypes. The two institutions who have publicly claimed the title of “Satanist” (The Church of Satan and The Temple of Set) both reject any and all of Christian Theology, Motifs, Archetypes, Symbolism and Characters as being ingenuous and twisted archetypes of older more healthy god archetypes (If you read Jung and Joseph Campbell, this is not uncommon for a rising religious paradigm to hijack an older competing paradigm as its bad-guys)
As Phil has suggested, maybe a front page post will come in handy. It should be recognized that some Satanists happen to be very rational people. They are just using the symbolism to manipulate their environment (although most of the more mature ones have found more mature symbols with which to manipulate the environment and their peers and subordinates).
The types to which I was referring in my post were the Christian Satanists (people who are worshiping the Christian version of Satan), which is just as bad as worshiping the Christian God. Both the Christian God and the Christian Satan are required for that mythology to be complete.
Wow! We make worshipping the devil sound bad around here by comparing him to God! Excuse me if I take a hint of pleasure at the irony. ;)
Well, they both (according to Christian Myth) are truly bad characters.
It is unfortunate for God that Satan (Lucifer) had such a reasonable request “Gee, Jehovah, It would certainly be nice if you let us try out that chair every once in a while.” Basically, Lucifer’s crime was one that is only a crime in a state where the King is seen as having divine authority to rule, and all else is seen as beneath such things (thus reflecting the Divine Order)
It was this act upon which Modern Satanists seized to create a new mythology for Satanism, where it was reason rebelling again an order that was corrupt and tyrannical.
To be fair this stuff isn’t Christian mythology in the way that Adam and Eve, or Loaves and Fishes is Christian mythology. It’s just religious fiction.
...
Unless someone has declared John Milton a prophet and possessor of divine revelation. Which would be hilarious.
It isn’t stuff that made it into the modern canon, but in the Early Christian Church, Myth of this type appeared all over the place from the Jewish Sources, in an attempt to integrate it into various Christian Sects.
Isn’t it ALL just religious fiction?
The key word in Jack’s sentence was “just”. The concept of ‘canonical’ is important, to religious believers and Star Trec fans alike.
The Christian Myth includes a quite specific definition of bad so according to the Christian myth only one of them is bad. Is what you mean that according to you the characters as described in the Christian Myth were both truly bad?
That description loses something when the ruler is, in fact, God. One of the bad things about claiming that the king is king because God says so is that it is not the case that any god said any such thing. When the ruler is God then yes, God does say so. The objection that remains is “Who gives a @$@# what God says?” I agree with what (I think) you are saying about the implications of claims of authority but don’t like the loaded language. It confuses the issue and well, I would say that technically (that counterfactual) God does have the divine authority to rule. It’s just that divine authority doesn’t count for squat in my book.
There are Christian Satanists? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Satanism was a religion founded around Rand-like rational selfishness, and explicitly denied any supernatural entities.
Yes, they are “Christian” in the sense that all of the mythology and practices for their worship of Satan are derived from Christianity, and they still believe in a Christian God.
It is just that these people believe that they are defying and opposing the Christian God (Fighting for the other team). They still believe in this God, just no longer have it as the object of their worship and devotion.
This is also the more traditional form of Satanist in our society, and one which the more modern Satanist tends to oppose. The Modern Satanist is a self-worshiping atheist, and as has been pointed out, tend to place everything in the context of self-interest. It is a highly utilitarian philosophy, but often marred in actual practice by ignorant fools who don’t seem to understand the difference between just acting like a selfish dick and acting out of self-interest (doing things which improve one’s condition in life, not things which worsen one’s condition)
There’s an Ayn Rand quote I don’t have handy to the effect that if the virtues needed for life are considered evil, people are apt to embrace actual evils in response.
Nope, worshipping the devil is right up there as far as meanings for ‘Satanism’ go.