Um… I haven’t been participating in these threads until now (will do so vigorously now), but what are current theories on the reasons behind what Quirrellmort has done so far?
It’s clear to me that Hat and Cloak = Quirrellmort. So what did Quirrellmort stand to gain from this ploy? Was he trying to deprive Harry of allies, to eventually force him to rely more on Quirrellmort? Or specifically remove Hermione as a Morality Chain? Is this about maneuvering Harry into a position where he will eventually feel he must make war on Magical Britain, with Quirrellmort acting as the Man Behind the Man? Setting up Harry as a fall guy when Voldemort makes his second play for control of Magical Britain? Very confused here.
It’s interesting that Harry needed to consult his dark side to arrive at this solution. It seems that the dark side is the piece of Voldemort’s soul put into Harry when Harry was made a Horcrux. But is there a telepathic connection to Quirrellmort? When Harry consults his dark side, does it result in general Voldemort-like thoughts, or does the dark side coordinate with Quirrellmort? If the latter, maybe Quirrellmort wanted Harry to call in the blood debt for some reason.
“Lessson I learned is not to try plotss that would make girl-child friend think I am evil or boy-child friend think I am sstupid,” Harry snapped back. He’d been planning a more temporizing response than that, but somehow the words had just slipped out.
Harry named two people in particular—Hermione and Draco—who made him less susceptible to Quirrelmort’s influence. This plot nearly removed both of them from Harry.
Let’s assume that Hermione had actually been sentenced to Azkaban. How many advantages would Quirrelmort have gained?
Discredited Dumbledore somewhat with a student almost being killed
Directly eliminated a Light-side witch showing skill at military command and Battle Magic
Made Harry more vulnerable by knocking out an ally/friend/moral compass
Driven a wedge between Harry and House Malfoy, eliminating Draco as an ally/friend and ensuring no Malfoy-Potter alliance could form against a resurgent Voldemort
Broken the Dumbledore-Harry alliance forever if Dumbledore actually let Hermione go to Azkaban; otherwise force Dumbledore to go into open rebellion against the law.
Made Harry take the majority of the Wizengamot as enemies who needed to be punished, both encouraging him to become darker and the members to have reason to be hostile to Harry in turn.
Provoked Harry into a (possibly) suicidal effort to destroy Azkaban, which (possibly) could enable a mass breakout of Voldemort supporters from same.
Isolated Magical Britain from the rest of the wizarding world for sentencing a child to Azkaban.
Delegitimized the Wizengamot in the eyes of everyone in Magical Britain horrified at the sentence.
There may be more that aren’t coming to mind, but, well, the potential payoffs for Quirrelmort were pretty high.
Directly eliminated a Light-side witch showing skill at military command and Battle Magic
If Quirrel were worried about this, he could have just not put all the effort into teaching her military command and battle magic (at a level so far beyond what is expected of his position). If light-side heroes like Hermione are something he’s worried about, best to just not go around creating them.
I don’t think Harry actually would have taken Dumbledore as an enemy if Dumbledore failed to save Hermione, as he clearly was trying and even using up political capitol. Only having Dumbledore stand in the way of Harry saving her would do that, and when Dumbledore realized just how determined Harry was he had the sense to step aside.
Also I’m not really sure how well “Delegitimized the Wizengamot in the eyes of Magical Britain” would have worked—rest of the world yes, but the papers were certainly doing a hatchet job on her. The question is how representative of the populace is the press? Obviously the biggest papers is Lucius’s and Fudge’s soapbox here and in canon, but there’s more than one paper in those newsstands and dissent isn’t illegal until the death eaters take over in the last few books. I’m going to go with “not at all representative of public opinion”, but propaganda exists because it works and they sounded prepared to present a unified front.
The rest, though, sound like things he could have planned on and represent MASSIVE gains for Voldemort. I especially like the “Isolated Magical Britain from the rest of the wizarding world” one—I didn’t even think of it, but it fits. He didn’t just get rid of Hermione, he goaded his enemies into committing an atrocity against her.
Certainly the level of wedge between Harry and Dumbledore if Dumbledore let something really bad happen to Hermione, versus the amount of political capital Dumbledore would have had to spend/lose helping Hermione, covered a broad range of probabilities. I put it in maximal terms, mostly to put it in sharp relief; the precise costs would have been uncertain, but almost certainly real to some extent. Some advantage gained in any case, if not devastating.
And I will freely grant that the percentage of “Magical Britain horrified at the sentence” is hard to determine, but I think 5% is a solid lower bound; some advantage if not big advantage.
Similarly, , per Spurlock’s comment, wiping out Hermione as “a Light-side witch showing skill at military command and Battle Magic”, well, it was obviously not enough of a consideration to keep him from making Hermione a general in the first place . . . but even then it’s still at least some advantage.
And so on. There are, I think, reasonable arguments for minimizing many of these items, but even then you still wind up with a long list of small advantages, and a lot of small advantages in itself adds up to a big advantage.
What’s also interesting is how many of these got at least partly achieved even though Hermione basically is going unpunished. QuirrelCloakMort’s plan may not have achieved everything it could have, but it didn’t fail.
wiping out Hermione as “a Light-side witch showing skill at military command and Battle Magic”, well, it was obviously not enough of a consideration to keep him from making Hermione a general in the first place [...]
It gets better if you think of it as make use of the powerful witch to level-up Harry, then get rid of her before she’s a problem and make do it in a way that brings all the advantages you quoted.
A click from the rod in Dumbledore’s hand silenced the room. “You are out of order,” the old wizard said sternly. “And your proposal is barbaric, beneath the dignity of this assembly. There are things we do not do. Lord Malfoy?”
Lucius Malfoy had listened to this with an impassive face. “Well,” Lord Malfoy said after a few moments. A cold gleam lit his eyes. “I had not planned to ask it. But if that is the will of the Wizengamot—then let her pay as any in her place would pay. Let it be Azkaban.”
A great cheer of rage went up -
“Are you all lost?” cried Albus Dumbledore. “She is too young! Her mind would not withstand it! Not in three centuries has such a thing been done in Britain!”
“What will the other countries think of us?” said the sharp voice of a woman that Harry recognized as Neville’s grandmother.
There’s also that “and in Asia, they tell other stories entirely” line (wording from memory, I think in the previous chapter). And at some point two characters say something to the effect that even Voldemort didn’t use the worst kinds of magic, or every country would have risen against him.
All suggests other countries at least look at what’s going on, but are reluctant to act unless things get Really Bad.
Um… I haven’t been participating in these threads until now (will do so vigorously now), but what are current theories on the reasons behind what Quirrellmort has done so far?
It’s clear to me that Hat and Cloak = Quirrellmort. So what did Quirrellmort stand to gain from this ploy? Was he trying to deprive Harry of allies, to eventually force him to rely more on Quirrellmort? Or specifically remove Hermione as a Morality Chain? Is this about maneuvering Harry into a position where he will eventually feel he must make war on Magical Britain, with Quirrellmort acting as the Man Behind the Man? Setting up Harry as a fall guy when Voldemort makes his second play for control of Magical Britain? Very confused here.
It’s interesting that Harry needed to consult his dark side to arrive at this solution. It seems that the dark side is the piece of Voldemort’s soul put into Harry when Harry was made a Horcrux. But is there a telepathic connection to Quirrellmort? When Harry consults his dark side, does it result in general Voldemort-like thoughts, or does the dark side coordinate with Quirrellmort? If the latter, maybe Quirrellmort wanted Harry to call in the blood debt for some reason.
Harry named two people in particular—Hermione and Draco—who made him less susceptible to Quirrelmort’s influence. This plot nearly removed both of them from Harry.
Let’s assume that Hermione had actually been sentenced to Azkaban. How many advantages would Quirrelmort have gained?
Discredited Dumbledore somewhat with a student almost being killed
Directly eliminated a Light-side witch showing skill at military command and Battle Magic
Made Harry more vulnerable by knocking out an ally/friend/moral compass
Driven a wedge between Harry and House Malfoy, eliminating Draco as an ally/friend and ensuring no Malfoy-Potter alliance could form against a resurgent Voldemort
Broken the Dumbledore-Harry alliance forever if Dumbledore actually let Hermione go to Azkaban; otherwise force Dumbledore to go into open rebellion against the law.
Made Harry take the majority of the Wizengamot as enemies who needed to be punished, both encouraging him to become darker and the members to have reason to be hostile to Harry in turn.
Provoked Harry into a (possibly) suicidal effort to destroy Azkaban, which (possibly) could enable a mass breakout of Voldemort supporters from same.
Isolated Magical Britain from the rest of the wizarding world for sentencing a child to Azkaban.
Delegitimized the Wizengamot in the eyes of everyone in Magical Britain horrified at the sentence.
There may be more that aren’t coming to mind, but, well, the potential payoffs for Quirrelmort were pretty high.
Mostly good points, but one issue:
If Quirrel were worried about this, he could have just not put all the effort into teaching her military command and battle magic (at a level so far beyond what is expected of his position). If light-side heroes like Hermione are something he’s worried about, best to just not go around creating them.
I don’t think Harry actually would have taken Dumbledore as an enemy if Dumbledore failed to save Hermione, as he clearly was trying and even using up political capitol. Only having Dumbledore stand in the way of Harry saving her would do that, and when Dumbledore realized just how determined Harry was he had the sense to step aside.
Also I’m not really sure how well “Delegitimized the Wizengamot in the eyes of Magical Britain” would have worked—rest of the world yes, but the papers were certainly doing a hatchet job on her. The question is how representative of the populace is the press? Obviously the biggest papers is Lucius’s and Fudge’s soapbox here and in canon, but there’s more than one paper in those newsstands and dissent isn’t illegal until the death eaters take over in the last few books. I’m going to go with “not at all representative of public opinion”, but propaganda exists because it works and they sounded prepared to present a unified front.
The rest, though, sound like things he could have planned on and represent MASSIVE gains for Voldemort. I especially like the “Isolated Magical Britain from the rest of the wizarding world” one—I didn’t even think of it, but it fits. He didn’t just get rid of Hermione, he goaded his enemies into committing an atrocity against her.
Certainly the level of wedge between Harry and Dumbledore if Dumbledore let something really bad happen to Hermione, versus the amount of political capital Dumbledore would have had to spend/lose helping Hermione, covered a broad range of probabilities. I put it in maximal terms, mostly to put it in sharp relief; the precise costs would have been uncertain, but almost certainly real to some extent. Some advantage gained in any case, if not devastating.
And I will freely grant that the percentage of “Magical Britain horrified at the sentence” is hard to determine, but I think 5% is a solid lower bound; some advantage if not big advantage.
Similarly, , per Spurlock’s comment, wiping out Hermione as “a Light-side witch showing skill at military command and Battle Magic”, well, it was obviously not enough of a consideration to keep him from making Hermione a general in the first place . . . but even then it’s still at least some advantage.
And so on. There are, I think, reasonable arguments for minimizing many of these items, but even then you still wind up with a long list of small advantages, and a lot of small advantages in itself adds up to a big advantage.
What’s also interesting is how many of these got at least partly achieved even though Hermione basically is going unpunished. QuirrelCloakMort’s plan may not have achieved everything it could have, but it didn’t fail.
It gets better if you think of it as make use of the powerful witch to level-up Harry, then get rid of her before she’s a problem and make do it in a way that brings all the advantages you quoted.
Do we have any evidence that the rest of the magical world would care?
Yes. Weak evidence, but:
There’s also that “and in Asia, they tell other stories entirely” line (wording from memory, I think in the previous chapter). And at some point two characters say something to the effect that even Voldemort didn’t use the worst kinds of magic, or every country would have risen against him.
All suggests other countries at least look at what’s going on, but are reluctant to act unless things get Really Bad.