Alice and Frank Longbottom were Aurors, not the Potters. And it was Demented!Harry who thought “final failure as a mother”; Warm!Harry went on to think “He had regained an impossible memory, for all that the Dementor had made him desecrate it”.
It’s my understanding that in this theory, it was Voldemort’s line “I accept the bargain. Yourself to die, and the child to live.” that fulfilled the description of a ritual, not anything Lily did.
At least James was an auror, as testified by Remus, top of page 697. Perhaps not Lily. I’ve seen it concluded from the “thrice defied” that they fought him and lived to tell about it, but I don’t think any of that has happened on stage.
If she didn’t offer it, I don’t see why he would have said what he did out of the blue, or that it would have fulfilled the terms of a dark ritual even if he did, unless by saying that Lily instantly dropped dead. In this case, I see the ritual made by offer and acceptance. Without an offer, there is nothing for him to accept.
The desecration was of his memory, not of his attitude toward it. I took that to mean that Lily actually did not try to cast the killing curse. (Although I personally don’t consider that a desecration of the memory. It seemed quite sensible, if she was not trying to fulfill a dark ritual.)
At least James was an auror, as testified by Remus, top of page 697
Sorry, this doesn’t help at all. ffnet doesn’t have page numbers, and page 697 of the pdf version mentions no such thing. Could you find the quote you’re thinking of in the actual posted chapters, say on hpmor?
I’ve seen it concluded from the “thrice defied” that they fought him and lived to tell about it, but I don’t think any of that has happened on stage.
This is true in canon; neither Lily nor James are Aurors in canon.
In this case, I see the ritual made by offer and acceptance. Without an offer, there is nothing for him to accept.
Rituals do not require consent, they require that someone names that which is to be sacrificed, then that which is to be gained, in that order.
Don’t know that pdf version you’re looking at. I’m looking at the pdf link on the front page of hpmor.com.
pg. 697
James was an Auror, and it was hard for him to look properly imposing with his wand shining like that—”
Interesting for EY to deviate from canon and make him an auror.
If it’s true in canon that Lily and James fought Vodemort and lived to tell about it, then I think we should accept that as true here until there is evidence to the contrary, particularly with the “thrice defied” requiring some accounting.
So two wizards, one of them an Auror, and both of them having fought Voldemort before and lived to tell about it.
Which is the better strategy for them when confronting Voldemort? Fight him together, or have one fight separately, and one beg for mercy for their son? Also, just in cost benefit analysis, in one scenario, Voldemort has some chance of defeat, which should count for a lot in that strategy’s potential benefits.
Rituals have got to require more than you say, otherwise every promise of something for something would become a dark ritual. That the foremost Dark Wizard would unknowingly complete a dark ritual all on his is another of the great improbabilities. Prior probability too low.
“Well, let us begin at the beginning. When you were born, James was so happy that he couldn’t touch his wand without it glowing gold, for a whole week. And even after that, whenever he held you, or saw Lily holding you, or just thought of you, it would happen again—”
So, no.
Which is the better strategy for them when confronting Voldemort?
The better strategy is “run (and/or portkey, fly, apparate, floo, etc)”. The fact that they didn’t do this probably has to do with the fact that they were taken completely by surprise in their place of safety.
Rituals have got to require more than you say, otherwise every promise of something for something would become a dark ritual.
And yes, the fact that if rituals could be done accidentally the world would look different is the main argument against this idea. Which is why its proponents have started to come up with conspiracy theories about Dumbledore planning everything, etc.
Alice and Frank Longbottom were Aurors, not the Potters. And it was Demented!Harry who thought “final failure as a mother”; Warm!Harry went on to think “He had regained an impossible memory, for all that the Dementor had made him desecrate it”.
It’s my understanding that in this theory, it was Voldemort’s line “I accept the bargain. Yourself to die, and the child to live.” that fulfilled the description of a ritual, not anything Lily did.
At least James was an auror, as testified by Remus, top of page 697. Perhaps not Lily. I’ve seen it concluded from the “thrice defied” that they fought him and lived to tell about it, but I don’t think any of that has happened on stage.
If she didn’t offer it, I don’t see why he would have said what he did out of the blue, or that it would have fulfilled the terms of a dark ritual even if he did, unless by saying that Lily instantly dropped dead. In this case, I see the ritual made by offer and acceptance. Without an offer, there is nothing for him to accept.
The desecration was of his memory, not of his attitude toward it. I took that to mean that Lily actually did not try to cast the killing curse. (Although I personally don’t consider that a desecration of the memory. It seemed quite sensible, if she was not trying to fulfill a dark ritual.)
Apparently not!
Sorry, this doesn’t help at all. ffnet doesn’t have page numbers, and page 697 of the pdf version mentions no such thing. Could you find the quote you’re thinking of in the actual posted chapters, say on hpmor?
This is true in canon; neither Lily nor James are Aurors in canon.
Rituals do not require consent, they require that someone names that which is to be sacrificed, then that which is to be gained, in that order.
Don’t know that pdf version you’re looking at. I’m looking at the pdf link on the front page of hpmor.com.
pg. 697
Interesting for EY to deviate from canon and make him an auror.
If it’s true in canon that Lily and James fought Vodemort and lived to tell about it, then I think we should accept that as true here until there is evidence to the contrary, particularly with the “thrice defied” requiring some accounting.
So two wizards, one of them an Auror, and both of them having fought Voldemort before and lived to tell about it.
Which is the better strategy for them when confronting Voldemort? Fight him together, or have one fight separately, and one beg for mercy for their son? Also, just in cost benefit analysis, in one scenario, Voldemort has some chance of defeat, which should count for a lot in that strategy’s potential benefits.
Rituals have got to require more than you say, otherwise every promise of something for something would become a dark ritual. That the foremost Dark Wizard would unknowingly complete a dark ritual all on his is another of the great improbabilities. Prior probability too low.
From the current version:
So, no.
The better strategy is “run (and/or portkey, fly, apparate, floo, etc)”. The fact that they didn’t do this probably has to do with the fact that they were taken completely by surprise in their place of safety.
And yes, the fact that if rituals could be done accidentally the world would look different is the main argument against this idea. Which is why its proponents have started to come up with conspiracy theories about Dumbledore planning everything, etc.