This ideal of pure reason is a poor substitute for people in their lives.
Which I didn’t hear a good answer to from Eliezer. In fact, I think that this was probably the most important question in the whole BH talk, if not the most important thing I’ve heard on LW since Anna Salamon’s excellent Cached Selves article.
Other than this, Adam Frank mostly talks nonsense.
Overall, a good showing from EY. Some important insights along the lines of “lets consider throwing out all of the religion stuff and starting over”
This ideal of pure reason is a poor substitute for people in their lives.
Amplify?
Many human beings that I meet go around with a lot of false beliefs, dark side epistemology, negative (false) beliefs about the out-group or the ideological enemy, and even religious and spiritual/mysterious nonsense. Why?
My opinion is that people do this to make themselves feel good. If you’re not very clever, it probably makes you feel better about yourself to claim that “all truth is relative” and “science can only go so far”. If you have a shitty job, it makes you feel better to claim that “capitalism is a conspiracy to make the super rich even richer and provides no benefit to the average person”.
My uncle spouts the most outrageous nonsense about quantum physics, claiming that it enables telepathy. For me (a trained physicist) it is positively painful to listen to him lecturing me about how quantum physics lets related people read each others’ minds. Why does he do it? Because it makes him feel good. His life isn’t so rosy; he’s had a few big blows and lost status within his community and he’s too old to do much about it. The instrumental value of an accurate map is low in his case, and the happiness value of nonsense outweighs it.
In many cases, I suspect that people adopt false beliefs and the ensuing dark-side for short term emotional gain, but in the long term the instrumental loss outweighs this.
Which I didn’t hear a good answer to from Eliezer.
not that I have a fully formed better answer myself, though Joy in the merely real type material is at least a start.
In many cases, I suspect that people adopt false beliefs and the ensuing dark-side for short term emotional gain, but in the long term the instrumental loss outweighs this.
Not only this.
If people never adopt the map that corresponds the most to its territory, they’ll never have an accurate cost-benefit analysis of adopting false beliefs.
Maybe, in some cases, false beliefs make you better off. The problem is you’ll never know that, unless you first adopt reason.
In many cases, I suspect that people adopt false beliefs and the ensuing dark-side for short term emotional gain, but in the long term the instrumental loss outweighs this.
That may be one way of adopting false beliefs the first set of false beliefs. Once the base has been laid (perhaps containing many flaws to hide the falseness), then in evaluating a new belief, it doesn’t need to have short term emotional gain to be accepted, as long as it fits in with the current network of beliefs.
When I think of this, I think of missionaries, promising that having faith in God with help them through the bad times. Then after they accept that, move onto the usual discussion of Hell and if only you do what they say, you’ll be fine.
28:20, Adam Frank makes the point that
Which I didn’t hear a good answer to from Eliezer. In fact, I think that this was probably the most important question in the whole BH talk, if not the most important thing I’ve heard on LW since Anna Salamon’s excellent Cached Selves article.
Other than this, Adam Frank mostly talks nonsense.
Overall, a good showing from EY. Some important insights along the lines of “lets consider throwing out all of the religion stuff and starting over”
Amplify?
Many human beings that I meet go around with a lot of false beliefs, dark side epistemology, negative (false) beliefs about the out-group or the ideological enemy, and even religious and spiritual/mysterious nonsense. Why?
My opinion is that people do this to make themselves feel good. If you’re not very clever, it probably makes you feel better about yourself to claim that “all truth is relative” and “science can only go so far”. If you have a shitty job, it makes you feel better to claim that “capitalism is a conspiracy to make the super rich even richer and provides no benefit to the average person”.
My uncle spouts the most outrageous nonsense about quantum physics, claiming that it enables telepathy. For me (a trained physicist) it is positively painful to listen to him lecturing me about how quantum physics lets related people read each others’ minds. Why does he do it? Because it makes him feel good. His life isn’t so rosy; he’s had a few big blows and lost status within his community and he’s too old to do much about it. The instrumental value of an accurate map is low in his case, and the happiness value of nonsense outweighs it.
In many cases, I suspect that people adopt false beliefs and the ensuing dark-side for short term emotional gain, but in the long term the instrumental loss outweighs this.
not that I have a fully formed better answer myself, though Joy in the merely real type material is at least a start.
Not only this.
If people never adopt the map that corresponds the most to its territory, they’ll never have an accurate cost-benefit analysis of adopting false beliefs.
Maybe, in some cases, false beliefs make you better off. The problem is you’ll never know that, unless you first adopt reason.
This is true, but I suspect it is too subtle a point for the average joe to grasp. People are surprisingly dumb.
A secular source of hope and psychological boosting would make the case for rationalism so compelling that even joe public might see its merit.
That may be one way of adopting false beliefs the first set of false beliefs. Once the base has been laid (perhaps containing many flaws to hide the falseness), then in evaluating a new belief, it doesn’t need to have short term emotional gain to be accepted, as long as it fits in with the current network of beliefs.
When I think of this, I think of missionaries, promising that having faith in God with help them through the bad times. Then after they accept that, move onto the usual discussion of Hell and if only you do what they say, you’ll be fine.