I understand the basic concept—I think the usual analogy is offering Ghandi a pill that would make him want to murder people, or something like that—but in most examples I could think of, there’s an element of (and I don’t mean this as bad as it sounds) moral judgement about it. Like, there’s some things I don’t enjoy that I wouldn’t mind enjoying—the taste of tea or coffee, for example—and some things that I don’t enjoy and would consider it immoral to begin to enjoy—cannibalism, kicking puppies, etc. This model is pretty clearly flawed by failing to account for your stated preferences not to enjoy Friends et al. (unless you consider that immoral somehow?).
Also, to illustrate how one man’s exaggeration is another man’s Tuesday: I do not currently, but would not particularly mind beginning to, enjoy self-flagellation. Masochists pretty much have it made, in my opinion—it’s so easy to inflict pain.
I agree with you. It probably is a certain amount of moral judgement. The way I experience a distaste in flirting is that it seems annoying and counterproductive to beat around the bush. I don’t personally derive enjoyment from it. If I did, or wanted to, I might feel differently about it. Flirting would by no means be the worst thing to end up having as a preference. But I still think some self-hacking would have to happen before I would want to enjoy flirting.
The way I experience a distaste in flirting is that it seems annoying and counterproductive to beat around the bush.
I see flirting somewhat differently. Flirting gives an opportunity for both partners to showcase their social skills and gain information about what they each respond to sexually, and what sort of relationship they might have if they were to embark on one. It’s like a mutual interview. Flirting will help your potential female partners determine what kind of guy you are, and if they are into you.
Flirting can often be direct, even though it is implicit rather than explicit. Yet many people find beating around the bush to be useful, because they want more time to assess their potential partner before making a commitment of interest. Personally, I am totally fine with giving a potential partner social information to help her assess her interest in me, rather than trying to get her to make a snap decision before she has sufficient information.
You still might not find flirting enjoyable, but perhaps you can see that it does serve some useful purposes.
I agree there can be useful information conveyed through flirting, but my experience is that flirting does not usually correlate with the factors that I want to gain information about prior to making a dating decision. On the other hand, if I were interested only in brief sexual encounters, then flirting might communicate information about whether I will enjoy a person’s company in the short term. I don’t usually seek that, but can see how it would be useful for people who do.
It might be possible that flirting is more useful for negotiating short term sexual encounters, but I think there are still applications for long term relationships. For example, flirting can help determine whether your senses of humor are compatible, which could important for a long-term relationship.
Although you might not care much about the information conveyed through flirting, your prospective partners very much might. Flirting will give them a lot of information about your character and social experiences, which they could find useful for determining their desire for a relationship of any length.
All long-term relationships start off being short-term.
I haven’t noticed a correlation between flirting and the kind of humor that is compatible to my own sense of humor, but again, it might be there. For me, however, one of the issues I actually actively look for when meeting a new person and considering a relationship with them is whether or not they are inclined to flirt. If someone flirts with me, it is generally a detractor and both she and I are probably better off not pursuing anything further, again except possibly for short term sexual interests. If someone else cares a lot about flirting (perhaps legitimately) that is usually a signal that I am not a good match for them. It would be the same if our first conversations focused heavily on NASCAR or high-end fashion… these are signs of a mismatch with my own personality and flirting is among them (though of course not the most telling or severe sign).
Also, for anyone who is interested, I am really curious what LWers think of the long passages at the end of David Foster Wallace’s posthumous novel The Pale King that describe the character Shane Drinion.
I understand the basic concept—I think the usual analogy is offering Ghandi a pill that would make him want to murder people, or something like that—but in most examples I could think of, there’s an element of (and I don’t mean this as bad as it sounds) moral judgement about it. Like, there’s some things I don’t enjoy that I wouldn’t mind enjoying—the taste of tea or coffee, for example—and some things that I don’t enjoy and would consider it immoral to begin to enjoy—cannibalism, kicking puppies, etc. This model is pretty clearly flawed by failing to account for your stated preferences not to enjoy Friends et al. (unless you consider that immoral somehow?).
Also, to illustrate how one man’s exaggeration is another man’s Tuesday: I do not currently, but would not particularly mind beginning to, enjoy self-flagellation. Masochists pretty much have it made, in my opinion—it’s so easy to inflict pain.
I agree with you. It probably is a certain amount of moral judgement. The way I experience a distaste in flirting is that it seems annoying and counterproductive to beat around the bush. I don’t personally derive enjoyment from it. If I did, or wanted to, I might feel differently about it. Flirting would by no means be the worst thing to end up having as a preference. But I still think some self-hacking would have to happen before I would want to enjoy flirting.
I see flirting somewhat differently. Flirting gives an opportunity for both partners to showcase their social skills and gain information about what they each respond to sexually, and what sort of relationship they might have if they were to embark on one. It’s like a mutual interview. Flirting will help your potential female partners determine what kind of guy you are, and if they are into you.
Flirting can often be direct, even though it is implicit rather than explicit. Yet many people find beating around the bush to be useful, because they want more time to assess their potential partner before making a commitment of interest. Personally, I am totally fine with giving a potential partner social information to help her assess her interest in me, rather than trying to get her to make a snap decision before she has sufficient information.
You still might not find flirting enjoyable, but perhaps you can see that it does serve some useful purposes.
I agree there can be useful information conveyed through flirting, but my experience is that flirting does not usually correlate with the factors that I want to gain information about prior to making a dating decision. On the other hand, if I were interested only in brief sexual encounters, then flirting might communicate information about whether I will enjoy a person’s company in the short term. I don’t usually seek that, but can see how it would be useful for people who do.
It might be possible that flirting is more useful for negotiating short term sexual encounters, but I think there are still applications for long term relationships. For example, flirting can help determine whether your senses of humor are compatible, which could important for a long-term relationship.
Although you might not care much about the information conveyed through flirting, your prospective partners very much might. Flirting will give them a lot of information about your character and social experiences, which they could find useful for determining their desire for a relationship of any length.
All long-term relationships start off being short-term.
I haven’t noticed a correlation between flirting and the kind of humor that is compatible to my own sense of humor, but again, it might be there. For me, however, one of the issues I actually actively look for when meeting a new person and considering a relationship with them is whether or not they are inclined to flirt. If someone flirts with me, it is generally a detractor and both she and I are probably better off not pursuing anything further, again except possibly for short term sexual interests. If someone else cares a lot about flirting (perhaps legitimately) that is usually a signal that I am not a good match for them. It would be the same if our first conversations focused heavily on NASCAR or high-end fashion… these are signs of a mismatch with my own personality and flirting is among them (though of course not the most telling or severe sign).
Now I get it! Okay, that makes perfect sense to me.
Also, for anyone who is interested, I am really curious what LWers think of the long passages at the end of David Foster Wallace’s posthumous novel The Pale King that describe the character Shane Drinion.
I will read it and get back to you.