Do you hold the same position about aesthetic preferences? Because frankly, trying to change your aesthetic preferences to fit your surroundings, instead of the other way around, strikes me as bizarre.
As far as aesthetic preferences go, learning to appreciate the subtleties of high culture isn’t something that’s generally considered bizarre. Yes, you can enjoy pop culture but I do think that changing your aesthetics by learning to perceive fine details is worthwhile.
I’m not a high culture snob you listens all the time to classical music that the average person can’t appreciate because they didn’t develop the required qualia. You can probably guess the reason ;)
I do have a project running to develop finer ability to distinguish colors and that’s likely to change my aesthetics. I do think that developing finer qualia to perceive more depth of reality is worthwhile.
As a programmer I do want to develop aesthetics that make me shun bad code that’s likely to produce bugs. I think that if you want to hold on to the aesthetics of a beginner programmer that will hold you back in developing your programming ability.
The same goes for most expert domains. Developing good aesthetics for a field can be very worthwhile. Physicists distinguish beautiful theories from one’s that aren’t and developing the aesthetics to make that judgement will take time.
I strive to increase information inflow by being able to perceive finer distinctions of reality and I strive to develop aesthetics that make me more effective in the fields I want to have expertise.
It is superficial, and I’m not suggesting that anybody would have performing archery as an actual terminal value. The terminal value may be closer to “do something cool by my present definition of cool”
For me that would still be a pretty superficial goal. But if we would look at that definition we could have a least a decent discussion whether archery optimizes that goal or whether there another hobby that would be more cool given that definition.
I think that something like life purpose is the core thing towards which to optimize.
Also, what’s your basis for the assertion that the general structure of my utility function is so abnormal?
I think most people would agree that investing burrow money with 20% interest rate to enjoy an experience in the present when you have to pay it back in a year is a bad way to discount future utility.
Do you see people going around trying to change themselves to find things okay that they don’t find okay, instead of trying to change those things?
That sentence is quite complicated to answer. Trying to change yourself is the opposite from changing yourself.
In reality quite a lot of people do adept to their circumstances.
If you look at politics a lot of democrats suddenly find policies that they rejected under Bush to be okay, now that Obama implements them.
The thing I advocate is being clear about your purpose in life and then making the adaptions consciously instead of just letting them happen randomly.
Trying to change things is an activity in which a lot of people engage. It’s generally a bad habit. Either you change things or you don’t.
Also, we’re not talking about it being okay to change your happiness function—we’re talking about whether it’s essentially obligatory, which you seem to be asserting.
I do think that it’s quite supoptimal to have a happiness function that makes you unhappy if you engage in the activities that are best for you. I’m not saying that you have to modify it in a way to feel bad if you don’t engage in the activities that are best for you.
Feeling unhappy when you do what’s right just feels unnecessary. I would recommend to everyone to be happy over being depressed all things equal.
I’m ending this discussion. I’m finding it unproductive and, frankly, I’m getting annoyed by it because I feel like I have to expend too much energy on rectifying mischaracterisations and preventing you from derailing things with what I perceive to be silly word games (like that thing about “trying”).
I’m getting annoyed by it because I feel like I have to expend too much energy on rectifying mischaracterisations and preventing you from derailing things with what I perceive to be silly word games (like that thing about “trying”).
Trying is a very real word. It has a specific meaning.
If you try to have fun you won’t have fun. If you give a suggestion in hypnosis for someone to try something that means the person exerts effort on the task and doesn’t focus on a result.
Ideas like that are central to how to change how you feel about an activity. To the extend that you don’t want to understand what it takes to change how you feel about an activity you aren’t going to be in a position to judge it. This is inherently a discussion in which getting clear about what terms means matters.
Whether you believe it or not, some people fully intend to do X and fail for some reason, whether external or internal. The proper English phrase to describe what they did is “try to do X (and fail)”. “You should not try to do X” entails “You should not X”. “You should not try to do X” with strong focus intonation on “try” is an entirely different thing—but then you’re not talking about trying, you’re talking about the expression “try”. You’re making such metalinguistic statements, which are entirely besides the point that I was making. That’s what I call silly word games.
If you think that changing around utility functions has nothing to do with metalinguistics I think you miss core of what it’s about. The things you can say about changing around utility functions without addressing metalinguistics are superficial.
In the framework in which you operate it’s not easy to change around utility functions. To the extend we want to discuss changing around utility functions you should open your mind to learn to make distinctions that you aren’t used to make.
Whether you believe it or not, some people fully intend to do X and fail for some reason, whether external or internal.
Yes. And sometimes that reason is that they are engaging into “trying”. Often the opposite of trying is “waiting”.
You set an intention and allow the necessary process to happen. That not all of it, but it’s necessary.
I did spent a weekend trying to not try to get into a trance that’s deep enjoy to produce amnesia for numbers. It doesn’t. It’s not something that you can do from that state of mind. It will just fail.
On the other hand if you set an intention and let go and don’t try phenomena such as that are easy to produce. It very annoying but it’s the way the human mind works.
If you are used to trying and shoulding it might take you a year of practicing meditation to leave that mental framework.
It’s however not something that necessary for learning to enjoy Salsa. Instead it’s much better to go Salsa dancing and focus on why dancing Salsa is good for you. If that’s where you mental focus is you utility function will change.
If you constantly tell yourself: “I should enjoy Salsa.”, “Did I succeed in enjoying Salsa a bit more than last week?”, you botch up the whole process by trying to change your utility function.
I never said that you should be happy. You are allowed to be as miserable as you want and cement that status by trying to change it. I think that’s an unwise choice but you are free to engage in it. I don’t want to take anyone’s misery away against their will.
As far as aesthetic preferences go, learning to appreciate the subtleties of high culture isn’t something that’s generally considered bizarre. Yes, you can enjoy pop culture but I do think that changing your aesthetics by learning to perceive fine details is worthwhile.
I’m not a high culture snob you listens all the time to classical music that the average person can’t appreciate because they didn’t develop the required qualia. You can probably guess the reason ;) I do have a project running to develop finer ability to distinguish colors and that’s likely to change my aesthetics. I do think that developing finer qualia to perceive more depth of reality is worthwhile.
As a programmer I do want to develop aesthetics that make me shun bad code that’s likely to produce bugs. I think that if you want to hold on to the aesthetics of a beginner programmer that will hold you back in developing your programming ability.
The same goes for most expert domains. Developing good aesthetics for a field can be very worthwhile. Physicists distinguish beautiful theories from one’s that aren’t and developing the aesthetics to make that judgement will take time.
I strive to increase information inflow by being able to perceive finer distinctions of reality and I strive to develop aesthetics that make me more effective in the fields I want to have expertise.
For me that would still be a pretty superficial goal. But if we would look at that definition we could have a least a decent discussion whether archery optimizes that goal or whether there another hobby that would be more cool given that definition.
I think that something like life purpose is the core thing towards which to optimize.
I think most people would agree that investing burrow money with 20% interest rate to enjoy an experience in the present when you have to pay it back in a year is a bad way to discount future utility.
That sentence is quite complicated to answer. Trying to change yourself is the opposite from changing yourself. In reality quite a lot of people do adept to their circumstances. If you look at politics a lot of democrats suddenly find policies that they rejected under Bush to be okay, now that Obama implements them.
The thing I advocate is being clear about your purpose in life and then making the adaptions consciously instead of just letting them happen randomly.
Trying to change things is an activity in which a lot of people engage. It’s generally a bad habit. Either you change things or you don’t.
I do think that it’s quite supoptimal to have a happiness function that makes you unhappy if you engage in the activities that are best for you. I’m not saying that you have to modify it in a way to feel bad if you don’t engage in the activities that are best for you.
Feeling unhappy when you do what’s right just feels unnecessary. I would recommend to everyone to be happy over being depressed all things equal.
I’m ending this discussion. I’m finding it unproductive and, frankly, I’m getting annoyed by it because I feel like I have to expend too much energy on rectifying mischaracterisations and preventing you from derailing things with what I perceive to be silly word games (like that thing about “trying”).
Trying is a very real word. It has a specific meaning. If you try to have fun you won’t have fun. If you give a suggestion in hypnosis for someone to try something that means the person exerts effort on the task and doesn’t focus on a result.
Ideas like that are central to how to change how you feel about an activity. To the extend that you don’t want to understand what it takes to change how you feel about an activity you aren’t going to be in a position to judge it. This is inherently a discussion in which getting clear about what terms means matters.
Whether you believe it or not, some people fully intend to do X and fail for some reason, whether external or internal. The proper English phrase to describe what they did is “try to do X (and fail)”. “You should not try to do X” entails “You should not X”. “You should not try to do X” with strong focus intonation on “try” is an entirely different thing—but then you’re not talking about trying, you’re talking about the expression “try”. You’re making such metalinguistic statements, which are entirely besides the point that I was making. That’s what I call silly word games.
If you think that changing around utility functions has nothing to do with metalinguistics I think you miss core of what it’s about. The things you can say about changing around utility functions without addressing metalinguistics are superficial.
In the framework in which you operate it’s not easy to change around utility functions. To the extend we want to discuss changing around utility functions you should open your mind to learn to make distinctions that you aren’t used to make.
Yes. And sometimes that reason is that they are engaging into “trying”. Often the opposite of trying is “waiting”. You set an intention and allow the necessary process to happen. That not all of it, but it’s necessary.
I did spent a weekend trying to not try to get into a trance that’s deep enjoy to produce amnesia for numbers. It doesn’t. It’s not something that you can do from that state of mind. It will just fail.
On the other hand if you set an intention and let go and don’t try phenomena such as that are easy to produce. It very annoying but it’s the way the human mind works.
If you are used to trying and shoulding it might take you a year of practicing meditation to leave that mental framework.
It’s however not something that necessary for learning to enjoy Salsa. Instead it’s much better to go Salsa dancing and focus on why dancing Salsa is good for you. If that’s where you mental focus is you utility function will change. If you constantly tell yourself: “I should enjoy Salsa.”, “Did I succeed in enjoying Salsa a bit more than last week?”, you botch up the whole process by trying to change your utility function.
I never said that you should be happy. You are allowed to be as miserable as you want and cement that status by trying to change it. I think that’s an unwise choice but you are free to engage in it. I don’t want to take anyone’s misery away against their will.