It’s pretty common for groups to treat individual restraint in the context of group lack-of-restraint as a violation of group norms, though “radical” is rarely the word used. Does that seem insane to you more generally (and if so, can you say more about why)?
If not, I suspect “extreme” has multiple definitions in this discussion and would be best dropped in favor of more precise phrases.
It’s pretty common for groups to treat individual restraint in the context of group lack-of-restraint as a violation of group norms, though “radical” is rarely the word used. Does that seem insane to you more generally (and if so, can you say more about why)?
Yes. That seems insane to me.
Self restraint is applied self control. It is a virtue and is something to be admired, so long as what as one is restraining one’s self for some benefit, not needlessly (though personally, I have respect for all forms of restraint, even if they are needless, e.g. religiously motivated celibacy, in the same way I have respect for the courage of suicide bombers).
Is alcohol consumption restraint without benefit? No. Alcohol is a poison that limits one’s faculties in small amounts, with detrimental health effects, in large doses.
A friend, was sharing with me the other day that he doesn’t like the culture of...I’m not sure what to call it...knowing overindulgence? He gave the example of the half joking veneration of bacon something that everyone loves and always wants more of, as if to say “I know it’s unhealthy, but that’s why we love it” so much.
I hear people say, “I don’t eat healthy food”, and in the culture we live in, that is an acceptable thing to say, where to me it sounds like an admission that you lack self control, but instead of acknowledging it as a problem, and working on it, glancing over it with a laugh.
I am a vegetarian. I once sat down for a meal with a friend and my sister. The friend asked my sister if she was a vegetarian. My sister said she wasn’t. The friend said (again, half joking), “Good”, as if vegetarianism is a character flaw: real people love meat. I confronted her about it later, and said that that bothered me. I know not everyone is a vegetarian, and it is each person’s own choice to weigh the costs and benefits to decide for themselves, but there are many, many good reason to practice some kind of meat-restriction, from the ecological, to the moral, to simple health. I won’t tolerate my friend, acting as if not eating meat means there is something wrong with you..
It feels to me, and maybe I’m projecting, that not everyone is up for making hard choices*, but instead of owning up to that, we have built a culture that revels in overindulgence. The social pressure pushes in the wrong direction.
It’s weird to not drink. It’s weird to not eat meat. It’s weird to put to much effort into staying healthy. It’s weird to give a significant portion of your income to save lives. Those are just obviously (to me) the right thing to do.
It seems to me that the way we treat smoking is about right. Mostly, we let smokers make their own choices, and don’t hold those choices against them as individuals. However, there is also a social undercurrent of, “smoking is disgusting” or at least “smoking is stupid; if you don’t smoke, don’t start.” There is a mild social pressure for people to stop smoking, as opposed to someone getting weird looks if they turn down a cigarette (the way I do now, if I turn down a cookie).
This is a subjective, semi-rant and I’m expressing my opinion. Consider this an elaboration on the off-hand comment above, and feel free to challenge me if I’m wrong.
I’m self conscious about the fact that I’m implicitly saying that I’m strong enough to make those hard choices, but I’m saying it anyway.
It’s pretty common for groups to treat individual restraint in the context of group lack-of-restraint as a violation of group norms, though “radical” is rarely the word used. Does that seem insane to you more generally (and if so, can you say more about why)?
If not, I suspect “extreme” has multiple definitions in this discussion and would be best dropped in favor of more precise phrases.
Yes. That seems insane to me.
Self restraint is applied self control. It is a virtue and is something to be admired, so long as what as one is restraining one’s self for some benefit, not needlessly (though personally, I have respect for all forms of restraint, even if they are needless, e.g. religiously motivated celibacy, in the same way I have respect for the courage of suicide bombers).
Is alcohol consumption restraint without benefit? No. Alcohol is a poison that limits one’s faculties in small amounts, with detrimental health effects, in large doses.
A friend, was sharing with me the other day that he doesn’t like the culture of...I’m not sure what to call it...knowing overindulgence? He gave the example of the half joking veneration of bacon something that everyone loves and always wants more of, as if to say “I know it’s unhealthy, but that’s why we love it” so much.
I hear people say, “I don’t eat healthy food”, and in the culture we live in, that is an acceptable thing to say, where to me it sounds like an admission that you lack self control, but instead of acknowledging it as a problem, and working on it, glancing over it with a laugh.
I am a vegetarian. I once sat down for a meal with a friend and my sister. The friend asked my sister if she was a vegetarian. My sister said she wasn’t. The friend said (again, half joking), “Good”, as if vegetarianism is a character flaw: real people love meat. I confronted her about it later, and said that that bothered me. I know not everyone is a vegetarian, and it is each person’s own choice to weigh the costs and benefits to decide for themselves, but there are many, many good reason to practice some kind of meat-restriction, from the ecological, to the moral, to simple health. I won’t tolerate my friend, acting as if not eating meat means there is something wrong with you..
It feels to me, and maybe I’m projecting, that not everyone is up for making hard choices*, but instead of owning up to that, we have built a culture that revels in overindulgence. The social pressure pushes in the wrong direction.
It’s weird to not drink. It’s weird to not eat meat. It’s weird to put to much effort into staying healthy. It’s weird to give a significant portion of your income to save lives. Those are just obviously (to me) the right thing to do.
It seems to me that the way we treat smoking is about right. Mostly, we let smokers make their own choices, and don’t hold those choices against them as individuals. However, there is also a social undercurrent of, “smoking is disgusting” or at least “smoking is stupid; if you don’t smoke, don’t start.” There is a mild social pressure for people to stop smoking, as opposed to someone getting weird looks if they turn down a cigarette (the way I do now, if I turn down a cookie).
This is a subjective, semi-rant and I’m expressing my opinion. Consider this an elaboration on the off-hand comment above, and feel free to challenge me if I’m wrong.
I’m self conscious about the fact that I’m implicitly saying that I’m strong enough to make those hard choices, but I’m saying it anyway.
(nods) Which is exactly what I asked for; thank you.
I think you’re using a non-standard definition of “insane,” but not an indefensible one.