I’m reminded of Bret Victor’s recent comment on reading Latour:
It’s tempting to judge what you read: “I agree with these statements, and I disagree with those.” However, a great thinker who has spent decades on an unusual line of thought cannot induce their context into your head in a few pages. It’s almost certainly the case that you don’t fully understand their statements. Instead, you can say: “I have now learned that there exists a worldview in which all of these statements are consistent.” And if it feels worthwhile, you can make a genuine effort to understand that entire worldview. You don’t have to adopt it. Just make it available to yourself, so you can make connections to it when it’s needed.
That, to me, is a principle of charity well applied. I wouldn’t at all say that steelmanning is a stronger form of that—a rationalist trying to steelman Latour would be like your Roman trying to steelman progressivism. Steelmanning is about constructing what you see as stronger versions of an argument, while the principle of charity is about trying to get into your interlocutor’s head under the assumption that whatever they’re saying or doing seems reasonable and right to them. The latter is much harder and rarer, in my experience, although that’s not to say the former isn’t more valuable in some situations.
You describe some real problems with steelmen. I think a first-order defense against them is just to ask whether your interlocutor agrees with your steelman or not.
It’s tempting to judge what you read: “I agree with these statements, and I disagree with those.” However, a great thinker who has spent decades on an unusual line of thought cannot induce their context into your head in a few pages. It’s almost certainly the case that you don’t fully understand their statements. Instead, you can say: “I have now learned that there exists a worldview in which all of these statements are consistent.”
False. Seems pretty obvious that lots of people have inconsistent worldviews.
I must say, I find this statement rather amusing in context.
Seems pretty obvious that lots of people have inconsistent worldviews.
Does the original quote describe all, or almost all people? It looks like it describes great thinkers- that is, people who should give you pause when they disagree with you. And if this is the first time you’ve met someone, you don’t know whether or not they’re a great thinker, and you may be overweighting a perceived inconsistency in your reading of their statement of their beliefs in your determination of whether or not they’re a good enough thinker to puzzle through.
Er, good point. It didn’t occur to me to think so-called “great thinkers” are that much less likely to be inconsistent than most people. But on reflection I stand by that. See e.g. Eric Schwitzgebel on Kant.
I’m reminded of Bret Victor’s recent comment on reading Latour:
That, to me, is a principle of charity well applied. I wouldn’t at all say that steelmanning is a stronger form of that—a rationalist trying to steelman Latour would be like your Roman trying to steelman progressivism. Steelmanning is about constructing what you see as stronger versions of an argument, while the principle of charity is about trying to get into your interlocutor’s head under the assumption that whatever they’re saying or doing seems reasonable and right to them. The latter is much harder and rarer, in my experience, although that’s not to say the former isn’t more valuable in some situations.
You describe some real problems with steelmen. I think a first-order defense against them is just to ask whether your interlocutor agrees with your steelman or not.
This is my favorite quote in several months :). You should add it to the Rationality Quotes thread.
Done, thanks for the reminder.
Agreed completely.
This formulation of the principle of charity also reminds me a lot of Miller’s law.
False. Seems pretty obvious that lots of people have inconsistent worldviews.
I must say, I find this statement rather amusing in context.
Does the original quote describe all, or almost all people? It looks like it describes great thinkers- that is, people who should give you pause when they disagree with you. And if this is the first time you’ve met someone, you don’t know whether or not they’re a great thinker, and you may be overweighting a perceived inconsistency in your reading of their statement of their beliefs in your determination of whether or not they’re a good enough thinker to puzzle through.
Er, good point. It didn’t occur to me to think so-called “great thinkers” are that much less likely to be inconsistent than most people. But on reflection I stand by that. See e.g. Eric Schwitzgebel on Kant.