From my point of view, most of the “content” is in comments, not in posts, and being able to participate in the give-and-take makes the conversation even more worthwhile.
If content is content is content, why are your nasty comments typically about top-level contributions rather than comments? However little signal there may have been in chaosmage’s post, your reply contained even less. It was at DH3 at best, plausibly DH0.
If content is content is content, and most of the content is in the comments, shouldn’t we also call everyone in this thread who responded to chaosmage’s post in earnest stupid?
When you assess your own contributions, do you think they are stupid? Do you think they are good enough to be top-level posts? If not, why exactly should should we hold your comments to a lower standard than we hold top-level posts to? Especially if the discussion is where the value is supposed to be found.
Frankly, I find your contributions consistently uninteresting and banal. Just in this comment, you managed to
Misread my comment. “If we take it more reasonably as a trade-off”—that’s what I did. I discussed the both the costs and benefits of harsh replies (cf “The cost of an occasional bad post is not very high: you read it until you realize it is bad and then you move on.”)
Strawman my comment. “I am also not interested in providing incentives for any content. There are places on the ’net with LOTS AND LOTS of content—Facebook, Reddit, Buzzfeed, etc. etc.” That’s not what I advocated. I advocated taking in to account the counterfactual impact of nasty comments. Which is a point you still haven’t responded to. Maybe it would be sensible to make comments harsher if we start to have the “too much content” problem. But that’s not the current problem.
Introduce a non sequiter: “As I said several times I dislike the high-priesthood view of science and I dislike the high-priesthood view of forums as well. I am not particularly interested in having a few high-status people bestow their wisdom upon me in exchange for adoration.” How is this relevant to our discussion? The issue here is you being nasty without adding any signal. Despite their username, chaosmage is no “high priest”.
Respond at DH3 again: “First, that’s false.” Why is it false? As usual, you express disagreement without adding anything to the discussion.
Consistent with my position, I might tolerate you if your only issue was low-signal contributions. I might tolerate your constant need to disagree with everything if you weren’t a jerk about it: “Hey chaosmage, I’m skeptical that the future is this easy to predict.” I might even tolerate your toxic behavior if you were actually providing contributions of value. But your combination of low-signal contributions and toxic behavior is too much. You seem to think that flatly contradicting everything in sight makes you some kind of bold maverick. I see you as more of a poster child for this essay.
Show me the data.
During the period where LW declined, you have consistently been at or near the top of “TOP CONTRIBUTORS, 30 DAYS” on the sidebar. You spend more time participating than anyone else, so you set the tone for the forum. This was during a period where almost everyone agrees that things moved in the wrong direction.
At this point, due to all the time you spend here, Less Wrong has undergone evaporative cooling. Many of the users who remain are those who have an affinity for your brand of uninspired, disagreeable obstinacy. I know of at least 4 other people who agree with me that you, specifically, have been toxic for Less Wrong’s culture. Some of these people I have a lot of respect for, in the sense that I learn things from talking to them. (I never learn things from talking to you.) These people spend a lot less time contributing to LW as a result.
What if you are the harbringer of Eternal September? Have you ever considered that?
I probably won’t respond further in this thread, because I’ve found that arguing with you results in an exponentially growing tree of tiresome objections. You never seem to change your mind on anything and you seem to disagree just for the sake of disagreement. I don’t ever get the sense that you have an underlying model of the world that informs your comments. It seems like you are more about disagreeing with everything in sight. And you seem to think that because you are disagreeing with people, it’s OK for your comments to be held to a lower standard.
I will say that I really, really wish you would find somewhere else on the internet to hang out.
I think Lumifer can be annoying as hell at times. But has been entirely consistent from the very start and has continued to engage in entirely the same way with whatever members are posting here.
Perhaps the different post rating system in LW 2.0 (if successfully launched and managed) will allow members who don’t like this sort of thing to more easily avoid or hide from this kind of dialogue but I expect (hope?) Lumifer will remain immune to shifts in the incentive structure.
I find your contributions consistently uninteresting and banal … your combination of low-signal contributions and toxic behavior is too much.
Well, don’t read them, then. When you see the name “Lumifer”, just skip over the comment. It’s not too hard—I manage to ignore comments by some people here without calling them names or expressing hope that they will disappear.
Ignoring stuff you don’t want to see is a very basic internet skill. I wonder how you manage without it.
due to all the time you spend here, Less Wrong has undergone evaporative cooling
The theory that I, personally, am responsible for the LW decline has a few rather large holes. For one, by the time I got here Eliezer was already gone and Scott was making only very occasional comments. For another one, that “top contributors” leaderboard ranks by karma, not by volume—if I was prone to staying on top of it, this means that the existing LW population tended to like my comments.
What if you are the harbringer of Eternal September?
LOL, nope. Eternal September is about quite a different thing, anyway.
I really, really wish you would find somewhere else on the internet to hang out
Sorry, I don’t grant wishes. May I suggest that you learn to deal with the fact that not all people are interested in your seal of approval?
If content is content is content, why are your nasty comments typically about top-level contributions rather than comments? However little signal there may have been in chaosmage’s post, your reply contained even less. It was at DH3 at best, plausibly DH0.
If content is content is content, and most of the content is in the comments, shouldn’t we also call everyone in this thread who responded to chaosmage’s post in earnest stupid?
When you assess your own contributions, do you think they are stupid? Do you think they are good enough to be top-level posts? If not, why exactly should should we hold your comments to a lower standard than we hold top-level posts to? Especially if the discussion is where the value is supposed to be found.
Frankly, I find your contributions consistently uninteresting and banal. Just in this comment, you managed to
Misread my comment. “If we take it more reasonably as a trade-off”—that’s what I did. I discussed the both the costs and benefits of harsh replies (cf “The cost of an occasional bad post is not very high: you read it until you realize it is bad and then you move on.”)
Strawman my comment. “I am also not interested in providing incentives for any content. There are places on the ’net with LOTS AND LOTS of content—Facebook, Reddit, Buzzfeed, etc. etc.” That’s not what I advocated. I advocated taking in to account the counterfactual impact of nasty comments. Which is a point you still haven’t responded to. Maybe it would be sensible to make comments harsher if we start to have the “too much content” problem. But that’s not the current problem.
Introduce a non sequiter: “As I said several times I dislike the high-priesthood view of science and I dislike the high-priesthood view of forums as well. I am not particularly interested in having a few high-status people bestow their wisdom upon me in exchange for adoration.” How is this relevant to our discussion? The issue here is you being nasty without adding any signal. Despite their username, chaosmage is no “high priest”.
Respond at DH3 again: “First, that’s false.” Why is it false? As usual, you express disagreement without adding anything to the discussion.
Consistent with my position, I might tolerate you if your only issue was low-signal contributions. I might tolerate your constant need to disagree with everything if you weren’t a jerk about it: “Hey chaosmage, I’m skeptical that the future is this easy to predict.” I might even tolerate your toxic behavior if you were actually providing contributions of value. But your combination of low-signal contributions and toxic behavior is too much. You seem to think that flatly contradicting everything in sight makes you some kind of bold maverick. I see you as more of a poster child for this essay.
During the period where LW declined, you have consistently been at or near the top of “TOP CONTRIBUTORS, 30 DAYS” on the sidebar. You spend more time participating than anyone else, so you set the tone for the forum. This was during a period where almost everyone agrees that things moved in the wrong direction.
At this point, due to all the time you spend here, Less Wrong has undergone evaporative cooling. Many of the users who remain are those who have an affinity for your brand of uninspired, disagreeable obstinacy. I know of at least 4 other people who agree with me that you, specifically, have been toxic for Less Wrong’s culture. Some of these people I have a lot of respect for, in the sense that I learn things from talking to them. (I never learn things from talking to you.) These people spend a lot less time contributing to LW as a result.
What if you are the harbringer of Eternal September? Have you ever considered that?
I probably won’t respond further in this thread, because I’ve found that arguing with you results in an exponentially growing tree of tiresome objections. You never seem to change your mind on anything and you seem to disagree just for the sake of disagreement. I don’t ever get the sense that you have an underlying model of the world that informs your comments. It seems like you are more about disagreeing with everything in sight. And you seem to think that because you are disagreeing with people, it’s OK for your comments to be held to a lower standard.
I will say that I really, really wish you would find somewhere else on the internet to hang out.
I think Lumifer can be annoying as hell at times. But has been entirely consistent from the very start and has continued to engage in entirely the same way with whatever members are posting here.
Perhaps the different post rating system in LW 2.0 (if successfully launched and managed) will allow members who don’t like this sort of thing to more easily avoid or hide from this kind of dialogue but I expect (hope?) Lumifer will remain immune to shifts in the incentive structure.
I completely agree with everything you said here.
Tsk, tsk. Such a nasty comment… X-)
Well, don’t read them, then. When you see the name “Lumifer”, just skip over the comment. It’s not too hard—I manage to ignore comments by some people here without calling them names or expressing hope that they will disappear.
Ignoring stuff you don’t want to see is a very basic internet skill. I wonder how you manage without it.
The theory that I, personally, am responsible for the LW decline has a few rather large holes. For one, by the time I got here Eliezer was already gone and Scott was making only very occasional comments. For another one, that “top contributors” leaderboard ranks by karma, not by volume—if I was prone to staying on top of it, this means that the existing LW population tended to like my comments.
LOL, nope. Eternal September is about quite a different thing, anyway.
Sorry, I don’t grant wishes. May I suggest that you learn to deal with the fact that not all people are interested in your seal of approval?