What I’m saying is that I’m not sure this doesn’t amount to, well, hacking my goal system in a bad way, in a way I ought to be rationally terrified of.
And I think actually ending up in a state where I think of such and such random object as “actually me”, is itself perhaps a bad thing unless it’s brief or I can remember and act on the knowledge that it’s not.
ie, if I was uploaded, and a convenient little interface was handed to me that let me click a button to twiddle what amounts to the pleasure centers in my brain, I’d want to do the equivalent of run away screaming rather than try it once.
Because once is enough to start poking and prodding at the reinforcement mechanisms/goal system of my brain, etc etc...
ie, now it’s not all that obvious to me that these states don’t amount to a crude form of “hacking my own mind into a limited wirehead state”
Which, of course, once it happens, will be in such a way that it would also trigger the stuff that gives a sense of satisfaction of “job well done”, thus I’ll end up believing it to be noble, wonderful, etc etc etc...
This is the nature of my concern. Perhaps it’s silly, but having read Crowley’s essay, that’s kinda an impression I’m getting about these mental states. Basically, a severe hack that alters my goal system in ways that my current goal system may even be absolutely horrified at if I really understood what was going on.
Maybe I’m completely wrong, though, my fears unfounded.
Actually, something I’d be interested in is hearing from rationalists, especially some here, who have actually experienced these states. Not just “meditated and tried to reach these states”, but actually got there or been in those states.
I understand there’re a bunch of low level “safety nets” built into us, that makes sense. But also, that may be why these techniques/training is so difficult. Because we’re subverting those bits of ourselves. I’m interested in self observing, etc etc...
It might be useful to think about the simple fact that if you’re a hunter of small game, you’re probably going to spend an awful lot of time sitting around staring at things, and that maybe evolution has a good reason for wanting it to feel good… not to mention developing your ability to concentrate, if your hunting pattern requires such concentration. What’s more, it’s a kind of exercise that humans haven’t gotten much of since we switched to agriculture.
Note, too, that it’s only since we’ve had agriculture that we started having religions offering salvation and release from suffering… maybe there’s a connection there.
Interesting observation. It is hard to find an in-depth article in Google Scholar on the idea that meditation or similar practices evolved to help us deal with stress and hone concentration. A recent study showed that nuns and monks who prayed or meditate showed increased activity in the parts of the brain implicated in analytical thinking and stress management.
My question is are these simply tricks we learned to deal with stress, or were they are part of human evolution to help cope with stress?
What I’m saying is that I’m not sure this doesn’t amount to, well, hacking my goal system in a bad way, in a way I ought to be rationally terrified of.
And I think actually ending up in a state where I think of such and such random object as “actually me”, is itself perhaps a bad thing unless it’s brief or I can remember and act on the knowledge that it’s not.
ie, if I was uploaded, and a convenient little interface was handed to me that let me click a button to twiddle what amounts to the pleasure centers in my brain, I’d want to do the equivalent of run away screaming rather than try it once.
Because once is enough to start poking and prodding at the reinforcement mechanisms/goal system of my brain, etc etc...
ie, now it’s not all that obvious to me that these states don’t amount to a crude form of “hacking my own mind into a limited wirehead state”
Which, of course, once it happens, will be in such a way that it would also trigger the stuff that gives a sense of satisfaction of “job well done”, thus I’ll end up believing it to be noble, wonderful, etc etc etc...
This is the nature of my concern. Perhaps it’s silly, but having read Crowley’s essay, that’s kinda an impression I’m getting about these mental states. Basically, a severe hack that alters my goal system in ways that my current goal system may even be absolutely horrified at if I really understood what was going on.
Maybe I’m completely wrong, though, my fears unfounded.
Actually, something I’d be interested in is hearing from rationalists, especially some here, who have actually experienced these states. Not just “meditated and tried to reach these states”, but actually got there or been in those states.
I understand there’re a bunch of low level “safety nets” built into us, that makes sense. But also, that may be why these techniques/training is so difficult. Because we’re subverting those bits of ourselves. I’m interested in self observing, etc etc...
It might be useful to think about the simple fact that if you’re a hunter of small game, you’re probably going to spend an awful lot of time sitting around staring at things, and that maybe evolution has a good reason for wanting it to feel good… not to mention developing your ability to concentrate, if your hunting pattern requires such concentration. What’s more, it’s a kind of exercise that humans haven’t gotten much of since we switched to agriculture.
Note, too, that it’s only since we’ve had agriculture that we started having religions offering salvation and release from suffering… maybe there’s a connection there.
Hrm, that’s a point, though I suspect even in our hunter gatherer days, we didn’t push ourselves to the extent these practices do.
But still, you do have a point.
Interesting observation. It is hard to find an in-depth article in Google Scholar on the idea that meditation or similar practices evolved to help us deal with stress and hone concentration. A recent study showed that nuns and monks who prayed or meditate showed increased activity in the parts of the brain implicated in analytical thinking and stress management.
My question is are these simply tricks we learned to deal with stress, or were they are part of human evolution to help cope with stress?
http://intro2psych.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/and-this-is-your-brain-on-prayers/