we all need to achieve enlightenment if our species is to survive
That doesn’t seem obvious to me.
super-intelligence a few decades away
That doesn’t seem obvious to me either.
We need to do this secular, as efficiently as possible and with the help of modern science
Well, let me repeat myself. That stuff you posted is pretty standard garden-variety Eastern (that is, Hinduist/Buddhist) enlightenment. If you think it’s radically different (science, etc.), pray tell in which ways it’s different.
Since super-intelligence isn’t the only existential threat I am aware of, I wonder why you don’t think ‘enlightenment’ isn’t necessary for our species survival? From the point of view of my brain, under the spell of this default mode, it seems obvious that it at least not beneficial for outcomes that are very complex. For example, for simplicity, if whatever I am, research AGI and there is self-referential thought with attachment to that thought, that’s distracting.
I’m not sure what part our default mode is cause or correlation with for example sustainability/excess consumption or unable to change ones mind. I wonder about the following steps in the article, like overcoming bias, and how efficient it is without the necessary change of brain mode. I say ‘necessary’ from anecdotal, first-person account of the uselessness of this spell and the amount of suffering it entails. But research into the brain and correlations between the spell, behavior and suffering, etc paints a picture which at least makes it seem as if it’s probably a good idea to change brain mode.
Well, let me repeat myself. That stuff you posted is pretty standard garden-variety Eastern (that is, Hinduist/Buddhist) enlightenment. If you think it’s radically different (science, etc.), pray tell in which ways it’s different.
I agree, I went off-topic, so I will continue off-topic: I’m not sure to which extents for example self-inquiry is scientifically validated, or removing attachments, at worst case by psychometrics, a not so objective measurement. But I think brain scans do show something which can be correlated with practices otherwise measured with psychometrics only.
I wonder why you don’t think ‘enlightenment’ isn’t necessary for our species survival?
Why would it be necessary?
it seems obvious that it at least not beneficial for outcomes that are very complex
Doesn’t seem obvious to me at all. Could you demonstrate? Using real-life evidence? I suspect there is a fair amount of the, ahem, nirvana fallacy happening here.
sustainability/excess consumption
Is it an existential problem? Sure doesn’t look like that to me.
self-inquiry is scientifically validated
That sentence makes no sense.
brain scans do show something which can be correlated with practices
Sure, but so what? Lots of things show up on brain scans. The question is whether what you are talking about is meaningfully different from what Hinduism calls moksha and Buddhism calls nirvana.
Doesn’t seem obvious to me at all. Could you demonstrate? Using real-life evidence? I suspect there is a fair amount of the, ahem, nirvana fallacy happening here.
For example, If I am an AGI researcher and I have a self-referential narrative, that’s distracting me from the process of writing a paper, however its in majority of cases not there when writing, but during downtime.
The nirvana fallacy
“The nirvana fallacy is a name given to the informal fallacy of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives. It can also refer to the tendency to assume that there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the perfect solution fallacy.”
What constitutes a thing? A paper on AI risk? I didn’t make the argument that the paper is equal to a brain state, the paper still has to be written, but how good is the paper between the default consciousness and the nondual awakened consciousness(the network is called task-positive network)? Paper is only an example, imagine every individual does more good for their role and more.
Perfect solution fallacy
“The perfect solution fallacy is a related informal fallacy that occurs when an argument assumes that a perfect solution exists or that a solution should be rejected because some part of the problem would still exist after it were implemented.”
It is the perfect usefulness, in my opinion to existential risk among others. It’s so useful it might as well be the solution in the first place.
Because it’s the first step in a chain for the solution. If eating vegetables is a chain in a solution to AGI risk, it’s not because its the solution, but because its useful.
Why would it be necessary?
It’s the most useful intervention, ever. The expected value is probably not higher for anything else.
Is it an existential problem? Sure doesn’t look like that to me.
No you’re right, but it’s the first thing I could think of that might be correlated with whatever we should call this. However changing ones mind probably is. The excess consumption could be an excessive donation to appropriate scientists, if they chose to do that, because what’s left in bliss but not to help others?
Here is what I wonder if it’s validated by science to work in the extents in which it is casual to the state which we strive for. Or if it’s correlation with psychometrics, like Hood’s Mysticism Scale and neural correlates after anecdotal report of completion of the state.
Sure, but so what? Lots of things show up on brain scans. The question is whether what you are talking about is meaningfully different from what Hinduism calls moksha and Buddhism calls nirvana.
Well, science is useful and it can probably help by a large degree. I don’t know exactly, but why would it matter? It’s more than just reading, its the direct experience that matters. That’s what all of these writers probably have had.
If I am an AGI researcher and I have a self-referential narrative, that’s distracting me from the process of writing a paper
That’s still not obvious to me. Here you are talking about the ability to focus, basically. This ability doesn’t seem to require enlightenment and can be e.g. chemically enhanced.
What constitutes a thing?
Brain state. You’re comparing the imperfect, deficient brain states of actual live humans with what you imagine could be possible if only proper enlightenment was achieved. You’re comparing something real with something you imagine.
It is the perfect usefulness … It’s the most useful intervention, ever.
You haven’t shown that, just asserted. Again, see the nirvana fallacy.
That’s still not obvious to me. Here you are talking about the ability to focus, basically. This ability doesn’t seem to require enlightenment and can be e.g. chemically enhanced.
Brain state. You’re comparing the imperfect, deficient brain states of actual live humans with what you imagine could be possible if only proper enlightenment was achieved. You’re comparing something real with something you imagine.
Nootropics or stimulants are to be re-dosed and used constantly? Many have side-effects in such a manner, subject to dependence and tolerance. If you are able to enter the flow state or a focused one without, why bother, what happens if you combine both anyway, I don’t know?
That doesn’t seem obvious to me.
That doesn’t seem obvious to me either.
Well, let me repeat myself. That stuff you posted is pretty standard garden-variety Eastern (that is, Hinduist/Buddhist) enlightenment. If you think it’s radically different (science, etc.), pray tell in which ways it’s different.
Since super-intelligence isn’t the only existential threat I am aware of, I wonder why you don’t think ‘enlightenment’ isn’t necessary for our species survival? From the point of view of my brain, under the spell of this default mode, it seems obvious that it at least not beneficial for outcomes that are very complex. For example, for simplicity, if whatever I am, research AGI and there is self-referential thought with attachment to that thought, that’s distracting.
I’m not sure what part our default mode is cause or correlation with for example sustainability/excess consumption or unable to change ones mind. I wonder about the following steps in the article, like overcoming bias, and how efficient it is without the necessary change of brain mode. I say ‘necessary’ from anecdotal, first-person account of the uselessness of this spell and the amount of suffering it entails. But research into the brain and correlations between the spell, behavior and suffering, etc paints a picture which at least makes it seem as if it’s probably a good idea to change brain mode.
I agree, I went off-topic, so I will continue off-topic: I’m not sure to which extents for example self-inquiry is scientifically validated, or removing attachments, at worst case by psychometrics, a not so objective measurement. But I think brain scans do show something which can be correlated with practices otherwise measured with psychometrics only.
Why would it be necessary?
Doesn’t seem obvious to me at all. Could you demonstrate? Using real-life evidence? I suspect there is a fair amount of the, ahem, nirvana fallacy happening here.
Is it an existential problem? Sure doesn’t look like that to me.
That sentence makes no sense.
Sure, but so what? Lots of things show up on brain scans. The question is whether what you are talking about is meaningfully different from what Hinduism calls moksha and Buddhism calls nirvana.
For example, If I am an AGI researcher and I have a self-referential narrative, that’s distracting me from the process of writing a paper, however its in majority of cases not there when writing, but during downtime.
What constitutes a thing? A paper on AI risk? I didn’t make the argument that the paper is equal to a brain state, the paper still has to be written, but how good is the paper between the default consciousness and the nondual awakened consciousness(the network is called task-positive network)? Paper is only an example, imagine every individual does more good for their role and more.
It is the perfect usefulness, in my opinion to existential risk among others. It’s so useful it might as well be the solution in the first place.
Because it’s the first step in a chain for the solution. If eating vegetables is a chain in a solution to AGI risk, it’s not because its the solution, but because its useful.
It’s the most useful intervention, ever. The expected value is probably not higher for anything else.
No you’re right, but it’s the first thing I could think of that might be correlated with whatever we should call this. However changing ones mind probably is. The excess consumption could be an excessive donation to appropriate scientists, if they chose to do that, because what’s left in bliss but not to help others?
http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/who_am_I.pdf
Here is what I wonder if it’s validated by science to work in the extents in which it is casual to the state which we strive for. Or if it’s correlation with psychometrics, like Hood’s Mysticism Scale and neural correlates after anecdotal report of completion of the state.
Well, science is useful and it can probably help by a large degree. I don’t know exactly, but why would it matter? It’s more than just reading, its the direct experience that matters. That’s what all of these writers probably have had.
That’s still not obvious to me. Here you are talking about the ability to focus, basically. This ability doesn’t seem to require enlightenment and can be e.g. chemically enhanced.
Brain state. You’re comparing the imperfect, deficient brain states of actual live humans with what you imagine could be possible if only proper enlightenment was achieved. You’re comparing something real with something you imagine.
You haven’t shown that, just asserted. Again, see the nirvana fallacy.
Nootropics or stimulants are to be re-dosed and used constantly? Many have side-effects in such a manner, subject to dependence and tolerance. If you are able to enter the flow state or a focused one without, why bother, what happens if you combine both anyway, I don’t know?
Besides, the effects of certain stimulants deactivate the default mode and activate the nondual awakened network, like nicotine. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-011-2221-8 Although, it is unknown if it also does it during rest.
The median score on the Hood Mysticism scale (a psychometric) is 154.50 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9IyLjPYAVCYYWViNjc0OGItNzBjMi00OTEyLTg4ZjctZDM2Nzk4YzY3NjJl/view page 65 (78 in google docs)