I would not want people to money-pump me from my delusions, even if it were profitable to them, and even if it were a very bad delusion.
If people have highly money-pumpable delusions that they can be money-pumped in a completely honest and open fashion then the individual is likely so irrational that the resources will be much better used when transferred to the one doing the pumping.
The IQ-100 people are entitled to all the wealth of the mentally-retarded?
I haven’t made any any assertion about entitled or not but it is clear that they will generally use the money more efficiently. That’s in fact why we often have guardians who handle the finances of the mentally challenged.
You agreed with the goodness of the outcome, which is close enough in this context.
but it is clear that they will generally use the money more efficiently. That’s in fact why we often have guardians who handle the finances of the mentally challenged.
And every one of these guardians is capable of duping their wards of all (rather than their permitted portion of) the money they might earn at jobs and such. We don’t let them do that, though. Because that would be wrong. Yes, even though they can find better places to spend the money.
How can you not see the difference between defrauding someone out of their money, and selling something they want and describing correctly and clearly what you are selling to them?
Differences in belief make the world go round. They are a feature of the human group-mind, a way fo that group mind to try many MANY hypotheses and many MANY policies and see how well they work out. The entire part of investing which consists of traders trading against other traders consists of each side exploiting what they think are the delusions and errors of the other side. The net effect of having these markets is that capital is moved towards more efficient uses.
Meanwhile, if I want to pay a cryogenics expert to freeze me even if she isn’t getting herself frozen because she thinks it is stupid and that I am wrong, then that is my business and her business, and it would take quite a butt-insky to get between us in that transaction.
You agreed with the goodness of the outcome, which is close enough in this context.
Er no. I said that the resources would be better used. That may have been poorly phrased. Whether the resources will be used more efficiently doesn’t mean that we let one do it, mainly because there are negative secondary effects from letting people just take resources from each other when they think it will work better and also because we have deepseated notions of property rights as a separate moral good.
I’m confused. I thought “pump” was a word used in dutch-book type arguments, where (to continue the analogy) the guy wanted to sell swords for less than he wanted to buy them for.
That is a different ethical situation, because at the end of the day you end up with both the swords and the money.
This is how I had understood “pump” in this general context.
in this context Silas is using pump in a slightly more general notion of a metaphorical pump, in that one can pump money or other resources away from someone.
That seems suspicious to me. Granted categorizations are imprecise, someone extending a word’s meaning to a borderline case that has heretofore not been referred to by the term because that case is less problematic might be trying to sneak in the more problematic connotations.
Even when the word had already covered that meaning, using a word gives an impression and sets one up emotionally for an average use of it.
E.g., someone saying “Let me tell you about a famous war criminal of the twentieth century,” who went on to discuss former President Clinton would be doing something objectionable no matter how well they proved he was technically a war criminal. He’s not an averagely evil or criminal one (if he’s evil at all), so using the term misleads the careless and casual reader.
(This would not always be true, in the example above it might be valid in an argument criticizing laws of war or international law.)
If people have highly money-pumpable delusions that they can be money-pumped in a completely honest and open fashion then the individual is likely so irrational that the resources will be much better used when transferred to the one doing the pumping.
The IQ-100 people are entitled to all the wealth of the mentally-retarded?
I haven’t made any any assertion about entitled or not but it is clear that they will generally use the money more efficiently. That’s in fact why we often have guardians who handle the finances of the mentally challenged.
You agreed with the goodness of the outcome, which is close enough in this context.
And every one of these guardians is capable of duping their wards of all (rather than their permitted portion of) the money they might earn at jobs and such. We don’t let them do that, though. Because that would be wrong. Yes, even though they can find better places to spend the money.
How can you not see the difference between defrauding someone out of their money, and selling something they want and describing correctly and clearly what you are selling to them?
Differences in belief make the world go round. They are a feature of the human group-mind, a way fo that group mind to try many MANY hypotheses and many MANY policies and see how well they work out. The entire part of investing which consists of traders trading against other traders consists of each side exploiting what they think are the delusions and errors of the other side. The net effect of having these markets is that capital is moved towards more efficient uses.
Meanwhile, if I want to pay a cryogenics expert to freeze me even if she isn’t getting herself frozen because she thinks it is stupid and that I am wrong, then that is my business and her business, and it would take quite a butt-insky to get between us in that transaction.
Er no. I said that the resources would be better used. That may have been poorly phrased. Whether the resources will be used more efficiently doesn’t mean that we let one do it, mainly because there are negative secondary effects from letting people just take resources from each other when they think it will work better and also because we have deepseated notions of property rights as a separate moral good.
Understood. Try not to change topics next time.
I’m confused. I thought “pump” was a word used in dutch-book type arguments, where (to continue the analogy) the guy wanted to sell swords for less than he wanted to buy them for.
That is a different ethical situation, because at the end of the day you end up with both the swords and the money.
This is how I had understood “pump” in this general context.
in this context Silas is using pump in a slightly more general notion of a metaphorical pump, in that one can pump money or other resources away from someone.
That seems suspicious to me. Granted categorizations are imprecise, someone extending a word’s meaning to a borderline case that has heretofore not been referred to by the term because that case is less problematic might be trying to sneak in the more problematic connotations.
Even when the word had already covered that meaning, using a word gives an impression and sets one up emotionally for an average use of it.
E.g., someone saying “Let me tell you about a famous war criminal of the twentieth century,” who went on to discuss former President Clinton would be doing something objectionable no matter how well they proved he was technically a war criminal. He’s not an averagely evil or criminal one (if he’s evil at all), so using the term misleads the careless and casual reader.
(This would not always be true, in the example above it might be valid in an argument criticizing laws of war or international law.)