This sounds like you think of them as mooks you want to show the light of enlightenment to. The sort of clever mathy people you want probably don’t like to think of themselves as mooks who need to be shown the light of enlightenment. (This also might be sort of how I feel about the whole rationalism as a thing thing that’s going on around here.)
That said, actually being awesome for your target audience’s values of awesome is always a good idea to make them more receptive to looking into whatever you are doing. If you can use your rationalism powers to achieve stuff mathy university people appreciate, like top test scores or academic publications while you’re still an undergraduate, your soapbox might be a lot bigger all of a sudden.
Then again, it might be that rationalism powers don’t actually help enough in achieving this, and you’ll just give yourself a mental breakdown while going for them. The math-inclined folk, who would like publication writing superpowers, probably also see this as the expected result, so why should they buy into rationality without some evidence that it seems to be making people win more?
To be honest, unless they have exceptional mathematical ability or are already rationalists, I will consider them to be mooks. Of course, I wont make that apparent, it is rather hard to make friends that way. Acknowledging that you are smart is a very negative signal, so I try to be humble, which can be awkward in situations like when only two out of 13 people pass a math course that you are in, and you got an A- and the other guy got a C-.
Pretty much someone who has read the Lesswrong sequences. Otherwise, someone who is unusually well read in the right places (cognitive science, especially biases; books like Good and Real and Causality), and demonstrates that they have actually internalized those ideas and their implications.
Related question: how can I upgrade myself from someone who trolls robo-”rationalists” that think acquaintance with a particular handful of concepts, buzzwords, and habits of thought is a mark of superiority rather than just a mark of difference, to a superbeing faster than a speeding singularity who can separate P from NP in a single bound?
Rational is about how you think, not how you got there. There have been many rational people throughout history who have read approximately none of that.
I am mostly talking about epistemic rationality, not instrumental rationality. With that in mind, I wouldn’t consider anyone from a hundred years ago or earlier to be up to my epistemic standards because they simply did not have access to the requisite information, ie. cognitive science and Bayesian epistemology. There are people that figured it out in certain domains (like figuring out that the labels in your mind are not the actual things that they represent), but those people are very exceptional and I doubt that I will meet people that are capable of the pioneering, original work that these exceptional people did.
What I want are people who know about cognitive biases, understand why they are very important, and have actively tried to reduce the effects of those biases on themselves. I want people who explicitly understand the map and territory distinction. I want people who are aware of truth-seeking versus status arguments. I want people who don’t step on philosophical landmines and don’t get mindkilled. I would not expect someone to have all of these without having at least read some of Lesswrong or the above material. They might have collected some of these beliefs and mental algorithms on their own, but it is highly unlikely that they came across all of them.
Is that too much to ask? Are my standards too high? I hope not.
Eh, without adopting particularly unconventional (for this site) standards, you could reasonably say that there have been very few rational people throughout history (or none.)
There’s a reason people on this site use the phrase “I’m an aspiring rationalist.”
This sounds like you think of them as mooks you want to show the light of enlightenment to. The sort of clever mathy people you want probably don’t like to think of themselves as mooks who need to be shown the light of enlightenment. (This also might be sort of how I feel about the whole rationalism as a thing thing that’s going on around here.)
That said, actually being awesome for your target audience’s values of awesome is always a good idea to make them more receptive to looking into whatever you are doing. If you can use your rationalism powers to achieve stuff mathy university people appreciate, like top test scores or academic publications while you’re still an undergraduate, your soapbox might be a lot bigger all of a sudden.
Then again, it might be that rationalism powers don’t actually help enough in achieving this, and you’ll just give yourself a mental breakdown while going for them. The math-inclined folk, who would like publication writing superpowers, probably also see this as the expected result, so why should they buy into rationality without some evidence that it seems to be making people win more?
To be honest, unless they have exceptional mathematical ability or are already rationalists, I will consider them to be mooks. Of course, I wont make that apparent, it is rather hard to make friends that way. Acknowledging that you are smart is a very negative signal, so I try to be humble, which can be awkward in situations like when only two out of 13 people pass a math course that you are in, and you got an A- and the other guy got a C-.
And by the way, rationality, not rationalism.
Incidentally, what exactly makes a person already be a rationalist in this case?
Pretty much someone who has read the Lesswrong sequences. Otherwise, someone who is unusually well read in the right places (cognitive science, especially biases; books like Good and Real and Causality), and demonstrates that they have actually internalized those ideas and their implications.
Related question: how can I upgrade myself from someone who trolls robo-”rationalists” that think acquaintance with a particular handful of concepts, buzzwords, and habits of thought is a mark of superiority rather than just a mark of difference, to a superbeing faster than a speeding singularity who can separate P from NP in a single bound?
Rational is about how you think, not how you got there. There have been many rational people throughout history who have read approximately none of that.
I am mostly talking about epistemic rationality, not instrumental rationality. With that in mind, I wouldn’t consider anyone from a hundred years ago or earlier to be up to my epistemic standards because they simply did not have access to the requisite information, ie. cognitive science and Bayesian epistemology. There are people that figured it out in certain domains (like figuring out that the labels in your mind are not the actual things that they represent), but those people are very exceptional and I doubt that I will meet people that are capable of the pioneering, original work that these exceptional people did.
What I want are people who know about cognitive biases, understand why they are very important, and have actively tried to reduce the effects of those biases on themselves. I want people who explicitly understand the map and territory distinction. I want people who are aware of truth-seeking versus status arguments. I want people who don’t step on philosophical landmines and don’t get mindkilled. I would not expect someone to have all of these without having at least read some of Lesswrong or the above material. They might have collected some of these beliefs and mental algorithms on their own, but it is highly unlikely that they came across all of them.
Is that too much to ask? Are my standards too high? I hope not.
Eh, without adopting particularly unconventional (for this site) standards, you could reasonably say that there have been very few rational people throughout history (or none.)
There’s a reason people on this site use the phrase “I’m an aspiring rationalist.”