In the expanding model, there are four factors of (1+z). 1 for the decrease in energy, 1 for the reduced rate at which photons arrive, and 2 for the increased trip of the photons through space.
In a static model, let’s say tired light from the 1930′s, light still always traveled at c and never lost energy on its own, it was thought maybe it hit dust. The dust makes the pictures blurry, which would be observed, so tired light (1930′s) is ruled out.
What you and I seem to think is possible is almost always instantly called tired light and dismissed from mind, despite being different models.
The (1930′s) tired light model has static space, and a photon always moving at c. It loses its energy via the hypothetical dust interactions and that’s one factor of dimming. There are three missing.
Now consider a model where the photon’s speed is c—H * d. In this model, the energy decreases, and the time it takes for a photon to make the journey increases with distance.
In other words, in “tired car” model (analog to 1930′s tired light), it takes a car traveling at 60 mpg an hour to travel to a location 60 miles away.
Then there is the standard model, call it “expanding road”. The car still travels at 60 mph, but the destination is receding away. Therefore, the trip is longer than hour.
Now, a novel model, the finite car model. Unlike the other models, the car itself can’t travel to infinity. The road isn’t expanding and the destination stays put, nothing gets in its way, but the car doesn’t travel forever, it (figuratively) runs out of gas and coasts.
If its speed is 60 mph—H * D, then it will take it take longer than an hour. The same amount as if the road were expanding.
Now imagine, you had 1000 of these cars, and you sent a new one toward the destination every 10 minutes.
If the road is not expanding, and the car is coasting it, each car coasts in 10 minutes apart. This model has 3 factors of (1+z).
If the road were expanding, the cars would reach the destination at increasingly larger intervals. The rate of their arrival is the 4th dimming factor.
We have slightly different models. You’ve obviously put more thought into yours, but I still like mine better, though I entirely admit I haven’t studied the implications of either.
Your model challenges two fundamental assumptions, and mine only does one.
For my model, the speed of light remains constant, but the energy of the photon decreases as it travels. A photon is a car fueled with itself, slowly burning itself up, though I’m not committed to it entirely burning itself up in the limit.
I wouldn’t think this would have anything to do with “dust”. Just travel through free space. I’m not explaining the effect, which I’d guess would require general relativity, just noting it as a possible mechanism for the observed red shift.
La Wik:
Following after Zwicky in 1935, Edwin Hubble and Richard Tolman compared recessional redshift with a non-recessional one, writing that they: … both incline to the opinion, however, that if the red-shift is not due to recessional motion, its explanation will probably involve some quite new physical principles [… and] use of a static Einstein model of the universe, combined with the assumption that the photons emitted by a nebula lose energy on their journey to the observer by some unknown effect, which is linear with distance, and which leads to a decrease in frequency, without appreciable transverse deflection.[16]
It might be interesting to consider the physics world at about 1935, and then again at 1945.
I heard one narrative put it in such a way, that these discoveries of galaxies and lots of them far away had quite a bit of interest, until everyone’s focus became war machines and nuclear bombs. When they returned to cosmology after the war, it was as they “said, where were we, space was expanding? ok” and then proceeded to work from there. An oversimplification I’m sure.
Under the assumption that photons don’t lose energy as they travel, right?
The speed? You’re modeling a change in speed by distance traveled?
Because the mathematics looks the same, would this be the same exponent for a model with:
In the expanding model, there are four factors of (1+z). 1 for the decrease in energy, 1 for the reduced rate at which photons arrive, and 2 for the increased trip of the photons through space.
In a static model, let’s say tired light from the 1930′s, light still always traveled at c and never lost energy on its own, it was thought maybe it hit dust. The dust makes the pictures blurry, which would be observed, so tired light (1930′s) is ruled out.
What you and I seem to think is possible is almost always instantly called tired light and dismissed from mind, despite being different models.
The (1930′s) tired light model has static space, and a photon always moving at c. It loses its energy via the hypothetical dust interactions and that’s one factor of dimming. There are three missing.
Now consider a model where the photon’s speed is c—H * d. In this model, the energy decreases, and the time it takes for a photon to make the journey increases with distance.
In other words, in “tired car” model (analog to 1930′s tired light), it takes a car traveling at 60 mpg an hour to travel to a location 60 miles away.
Then there is the standard model, call it “expanding road”. The car still travels at 60 mph, but the destination is receding away. Therefore, the trip is longer than hour.
Now, a novel model, the finite car model. Unlike the other models, the car itself can’t travel to infinity. The road isn’t expanding and the destination stays put, nothing gets in its way, but the car doesn’t travel forever, it (figuratively) runs out of gas and coasts.
If its speed is 60 mph—H * D, then it will take it take longer than an hour. The same amount as if the road were expanding.
Now imagine, you had 1000 of these cars, and you sent a new one toward the destination every 10 minutes.
If the road is not expanding, and the car is coasting it, each car coasts in 10 minutes apart. This model has 3 factors of (1+z).
If the road were expanding, the cars would reach the destination at increasingly larger intervals. The rate of their arrival is the 4th dimming factor.
An AskScienceDiscussion question I asked to verify this
We have slightly different models. You’ve obviously put more thought into yours, but I still like mine better, though I entirely admit I haven’t studied the implications of either.
Your model challenges two fundamental assumptions, and mine only does one.
For my model, the speed of light remains constant, but the energy of the photon decreases as it travels. A photon is a car fueled with itself, slowly burning itself up, though I’m not committed to it entirely burning itself up in the limit.
I wouldn’t think this would have anything to do with “dust”. Just travel through free space. I’m not explaining the effect, which I’d guess would require general relativity, just noting it as a possible mechanism for the observed red shift.
La Wik:
Sounds about right to me.
Does it go somewhere or you’re discarding the Conservation of Energy?
Exchange of momentum with the gravitational field?
I don’t understand this sentence. Do you want to say that light going through the gravitational field makes the gravity stronger..?
Sounds like Dan Davis means “turns into gravitons”.
It might be interesting to consider the physics world at about 1935, and then again at 1945.
I heard one narrative put it in such a way, that these discoveries of galaxies and lots of them far away had quite a bit of interest, until everyone’s focus became war machines and nuclear bombs. When they returned to cosmology after the war, it was as they “said, where were we, space was expanding? ok” and then proceeded to work from there. An oversimplification I’m sure.