I’m only unopposed to tagging out in worlds where it seems like literally no one else will hold the line. In worlds where there’s a mod team that’s dedicated to firm norms, I’m enthusiastic about other people benching me if it’s reasonable to assume I’m emotionally compromised.
I am somewhat confused here. Did it not seem to you like you could recruit help, or that an unsuccessful attempt at recruiting help would be informative about what’s right? (That is, I expect it to be much easier for Alice to discuss Bob’s post with Carol, in the hopes that Carol will hold the line for Alice, than for Alice to discuss Bob’s post with Bob, and I think an important skill for Alice is determining when she is emotionally compromised such that this additional step is warranted.)
From my perspective, given prior experience in 1) the original DA post, 2) the DA retrospective, 3) the meta thread that split off of the MTG post, and 4) the long interaction with Ben on Facebook back in maybe June of last year, I believe I am justified in expecting that ~no one else will expend effort on the standards that I think are important. Occasionally you or Qiaochu poke your heads in and offer a measured, moderate endorsement, but it’s usually (again, just according to me) an order of magnitude smaller than the eroding forces.
I note that I have heard from more than three people that they feel constrained in responding for other reasons, which makes me expect that the lack of other people carrying the flag is not entirely explained by me simply being wrong.
I note that I have heard from more than three people that they feel constrained in responding for other reasons, which makes me expect that the lack of other people carrying the flag is not entirely explained by me simply being wrong.
To be clear, an example of an “attempt at recruiting help” is sending a comment link to Qiaochu followed by “I am enraged by this comment, how should I respond to it?”. Perhaps Qiaochu says “yeah, X, Y, and Z about this comment are bad”, and then you see whether or not Qiaochu will write the thing; perhaps Qiaochu says “hmm, this comment seems mixed” and the two of you work through it together; perhaps Qiaochu says “I think this makes a solid point, what about it enrages you?” and you figure out the core disagreements in a more friendly environment. If there’s an obstacle of the form “I don’t know how to criticize point X without opening up to attack / jeopardizing a different important thing,” you now have a label of the problem and multiple people to think about how to solve it.
I worry that you’re counting implicit recruitment; that is, you see a post that enrages you, you learn that I also saw that post, you imagine that constitutes an interaction where you ask for help dealing with the post. That’s not the sort of thing I’m imagining, and I would expect implicit recruitment to be insufficient, especially in situations of time pressure.
[edit]To be even clearer, the reason why this response is to the quoted section is because “unsuccessful attempt at recruiting help” is the version where Duncan talks it out with Qiaochu and can’t convince Qiaochu that the comment is bad, not the version where Duncan doesn’t even ask Qiaochu and Qiaochu doesn’t come to his aid.
I am somewhat confused here. Did it not seem to you like you could recruit help, or that an unsuccessful attempt at recruiting help would be informative about what’s right? (That is, I expect it to be much easier for Alice to discuss Bob’s post with Carol, in the hopes that Carol will hold the line for Alice, than for Alice to discuss Bob’s post with Bob, and I think an important skill for Alice is determining when she is emotionally compromised such that this additional step is warranted.)
From my perspective, given prior experience in 1) the original DA post, 2) the DA retrospective, 3) the meta thread that split off of the MTG post, and 4) the long interaction with Ben on Facebook back in maybe June of last year, I believe I am justified in expecting that ~no one else will expend effort on the standards that I think are important. Occasionally you or Qiaochu poke your heads in and offer a measured, moderate endorsement, but it’s usually (again, just according to me) an order of magnitude smaller than the eroding forces.
I note that I have heard from more than three people that they feel constrained in responding for other reasons, which makes me expect that the lack of other people carrying the flag is not entirely explained by me simply being wrong.
To be clear, an example of an “attempt at recruiting help” is sending a comment link to Qiaochu followed by “I am enraged by this comment, how should I respond to it?”. Perhaps Qiaochu says “yeah, X, Y, and Z about this comment are bad”, and then you see whether or not Qiaochu will write the thing; perhaps Qiaochu says “hmm, this comment seems mixed” and the two of you work through it together; perhaps Qiaochu says “I think this makes a solid point, what about it enrages you?” and you figure out the core disagreements in a more friendly environment. If there’s an obstacle of the form “I don’t know how to criticize point X without opening up to attack / jeopardizing a different important thing,” you now have a label of the problem and multiple people to think about how to solve it.
I worry that you’re counting implicit recruitment; that is, you see a post that enrages you, you learn that I also saw that post, you imagine that constitutes an interaction where you ask for help dealing with the post. That’s not the sort of thing I’m imagining, and I would expect implicit recruitment to be insufficient, especially in situations of time pressure.
[edit]To be even clearer, the reason why this response is to the quoted section is because “unsuccessful attempt at recruiting help” is the version where Duncan talks it out with Qiaochu and can’t convince Qiaochu that the comment is bad, not the version where Duncan doesn’t even ask Qiaochu and Qiaochu doesn’t come to his aid.
I’ve definitely made the mistake I think you’re describing, in discussions of Duncan’s stuff.