I have a few thoughts on various aspects of this piece.
On tone: seeming immediately disdainful of your object-level example is going to garner hostility right off the bat. I found myself going “Oh, come on, dude, they’re helpful for a lot of people!” and I know you. We’re friends, and I like you, and can generally assume that you’re making arguments in good faith. I still had the hostile reaction to tone, even with all of that context.
On subject matter: I think there’s a bit of typical mind here. While anyone who’s talked to me about the subject knows my feelings on LW’s tendency to over-embrace models, I still think they’re useful. At the level of your specific example, I think that this advice kind of talks past people in the midst of many relationship problems. A model that immediately gets an important point across is invaluable. In this case, the point is that “The things you’re doing might not be making your partner feel loved, and vice versa.” Many people haven’t ever realized that there are different ways to express love. Some people have disdain for certain types of expression, not realizing that such emotional needs are in the territory, not the map. This is a quick and dirty way to get that point across.
On suggesting that people generate models from scratch: I think this is a bad idea for many people until they’re very, very good at checking themselves for typical mind biases. Most people aren’t; I’m not. Modification of existing models at least exposes the designer to alien perspectives. If I’d sat down and tried to develop a model of relationships when I was sixteen, I would have left out the need for small gifts entirely. They don’t mean much to me, and I would have remained disdainful of the idea. It would have been sad if I hadn’t been able to recognize a partner’s expressed need for small physical tokens, especially if the relationship was otherwise viable.
I’ve stuck to the love languages example here, but assume that I mean this sort of thing generally. I do have something to address on relationships themselves. When problems are obviously rooted in communication issues, trying to solve the problem on your own is only going to produce solutions that depend on your communication style! Most people aren’t great at switching the entire emotional context from which their communications are generated. You aren’t, I’m not, and I can only think of one or two people who have seemed to exhibit this skill.
An even more general note: Disdain for the existing literature is common on LW. It’s understandable. This site exists in large part because of a scholarly gap. But I worry that we’re too immediately contrarian, ignoring things that have worked while being imperfect.
Disdain for the existing literature is common on LW.
I want to point out that 5 love languages is not literature so much as pop psyc (in that it has no peer review). Humans are filled with noise and complicated cases. There is no reason why 6 love languages would not explain communication better than 4 would than 5 would.
Other than the fact that many humans agree with the book (leading it to be popular).
Science goes:
generate theory
test theory
publish results
pop goes:
generate theory
publish theory
let the public be the judge.
I am suggesting people do the more science-based iteration route than the pop-route.
Fair enough. I still think the risk of someone coming up with “The 1 Love Language” is high enough that outside sources are worth pursuing. Obviously “The Six Love Languages” would have sufficed in a similar way.
I have a few thoughts on various aspects of this piece.
On tone: seeming immediately disdainful of your object-level example is going to garner hostility right off the bat. I found myself going “Oh, come on, dude, they’re helpful for a lot of people!” and I know you. We’re friends, and I like you, and can generally assume that you’re making arguments in good faith. I still had the hostile reaction to tone, even with all of that context.
On subject matter: I think there’s a bit of typical mind here. While anyone who’s talked to me about the subject knows my feelings on LW’s tendency to over-embrace models, I still think they’re useful. At the level of your specific example, I think that this advice kind of talks past people in the midst of many relationship problems. A model that immediately gets an important point across is invaluable. In this case, the point is that “The things you’re doing might not be making your partner feel loved, and vice versa.” Many people haven’t ever realized that there are different ways to express love. Some people have disdain for certain types of expression, not realizing that such emotional needs are in the territory, not the map. This is a quick and dirty way to get that point across.
On suggesting that people generate models from scratch: I think this is a bad idea for many people until they’re very, very good at checking themselves for typical mind biases. Most people aren’t; I’m not. Modification of existing models at least exposes the designer to alien perspectives. If I’d sat down and tried to develop a model of relationships when I was sixteen, I would have left out the need for small gifts entirely. They don’t mean much to me, and I would have remained disdainful of the idea. It would have been sad if I hadn’t been able to recognize a partner’s expressed need for small physical tokens, especially if the relationship was otherwise viable.
I’ve stuck to the love languages example here, but assume that I mean this sort of thing generally. I do have something to address on relationships themselves. When problems are obviously rooted in communication issues, trying to solve the problem on your own is only going to produce solutions that depend on your communication style! Most people aren’t great at switching the entire emotional context from which their communications are generated. You aren’t, I’m not, and I can only think of one or two people who have seemed to exhibit this skill.
An even more general note: Disdain for the existing literature is common on LW. It’s understandable. This site exists in large part because of a scholarly gap. But I worry that we’re too immediately contrarian, ignoring things that have worked while being imperfect.
I want to point out that 5 love languages is not literature so much as pop psyc (in that it has no peer review). Humans are filled with noise and complicated cases. There is no reason why 6 love languages would not explain communication better than 4 would than 5 would.
Other than the fact that many humans agree with the book (leading it to be popular).
Science goes: generate theory test theory publish results
pop goes: generate theory publish theory let the public be the judge.
I am suggesting people do the more science-based iteration route than the pop-route.
Fair enough. I still think the risk of someone coming up with “The 1 Love Language” is high enough that outside sources are worth pursuing. Obviously “The Six Love Languages” would have sufficed in a similar way.