My point is that you need to set a line: if it’s below the line, ignore it, if it’s above the line, react. I said as much in a reply to another comment. If someone hits you in a way that is not okay, hit back.
Unless they’ve already demonstrated a sufficient power differential that it’s common knowledge that they get to do what they want and you can’t object.
I’m curious why this is downvoted—if someone can legitimately dominate you, and you can’t rally other resources to protect you from domination, how is learning to submit NOT the correct response?
The OP was suggesting that you shouldn’t set the line above slug-bug. If you do, the aggressor now gets to take offense and socially (or physically—if you “punch back”, you’ve defected and are now fair game for retailiation) punish you for it.
It’s a bad equilibrium and I won’t support it. I don’t often fight against it, but that’s mostly because I no longer feel the helplessness and fear I sometimes did as a kid, and I feel bad when I see it and do nothing.
I think the central question that Duncan is getting at in the article is where the line should be. Society is putting it more towards micro, Duncan thinks it’s swung to far and wants to be towards macro. But it’s clear that just saying “have a line” doesn’t help with the dilemma very much (unless people don’t have personal boundaries, in which case saying “Have a line” is definitely helpful advice).
I thought the point was that people don’t set a line in some cases. This leads to situation where something that doesn’t actually bother people gets pushed back against based *on principle* only.
But it could very well be that you are right, or that we both are.
This feels like a not-completely-honest question. But here is my honest answer: “hit back” is a shorthand/metaphor for “react”. It’s an example with a very particular scenario in mind, but I’m sure you can generalize. Do something effective about it, the keyword to search for here is “domestic violence”.
This was not entirely a hypothetical question. My wife has attacked me several times. She hits me hard enough to hurt but not hard enough to injure. She had said several times that my refusal to fight back makes me less of a man and less attractive to her. The last time this happened, I did fight back, and she ended up with a nasty bruise on her stomach which was tender for days afterward. I also went to the local police station and filed a report, declining to press any charges. It has not happened since, although it could just be a matter of time.
(I am not the only person that my wife has attacked. She says that if she gets mad enough, she “blacks out” and can’t remember what happens. Apparently, years ago, she went to the hospital to visit a close relative, only to be rudely told by a doctor “You can’t go into that room, that person’s dead.” She doesn’t remember what happened next, but supposedly she tried to strangle the doctor and had to be restrained by the people who went with her to the hospital.)
This is not normal behavior on her part. This is domestic violence. The standard advice is to leave people who hit you. Possibly after clearly stating that you are not okay with being hit and you will leave if it continues, and giving her a chance to change her ways. Maybe she should work with a professional to help with her anger problems. But there is a significant risk that a person who regularly attacks you will escalate.
My point is that you need to set a line: if it’s below the line, ignore it, if it’s above the line, react. I said as much in a reply to another comment. If someone hits you in a way that is not okay, hit back.
Unless they’ve already demonstrated a sufficient power differential that it’s common knowledge that they get to do what they want and you can’t object.
In which case, learn to submit.
I’m curious why this is downvoted—if someone can legitimately dominate you, and you can’t rally other resources to protect you from domination, how is learning to submit NOT the correct response?
The OP was suggesting that you shouldn’t set the line above slug-bug. If you do, the aggressor now gets to take offense and socially (or physically—if you “punch back”, you’ve defected and are now fair game for retailiation) punish you for it.
It’s a bad equilibrium and I won’t support it. I don’t often fight against it, but that’s mostly because I no longer feel the helplessness and fear I sometimes did as a kid, and I feel bad when I see it and do nothing.
I think the central question that Duncan is getting at in the article is where the line should be. Society is putting it more towards micro, Duncan thinks it’s swung to far and wants to be towards macro. But it’s clear that just saying “have a line” doesn’t help with the dilemma very much (unless people don’t have personal boundaries, in which case saying “Have a line” is definitely helpful advice).
I thought the point was that people don’t set a line in some cases. This leads to situation where something that doesn’t actually bother people gets pushed back against based *on principle* only.
But it could very well be that you are right, or that we both are.
If my wife hits me, should I hit her back?
This feels like a not-completely-honest question. But here is my honest answer: “hit back” is a shorthand/metaphor for “react”. It’s an example with a very particular scenario in mind, but I’m sure you can generalize. Do something effective about it, the keyword to search for here is “domestic violence”.
This was not entirely a hypothetical question. My wife has attacked me several times. She hits me hard enough to hurt but not hard enough to injure. She had said several times that my refusal to fight back makes me less of a man and less attractive to her. The last time this happened, I did fight back, and she ended up with a nasty bruise on her stomach which was tender for days afterward. I also went to the local police station and filed a report, declining to press any charges. It has not happened since, although it could just be a matter of time.
(I am not the only person that my wife has attacked. She says that if she gets mad enough, she “blacks out” and can’t remember what happens. Apparently, years ago, she went to the hospital to visit a close relative, only to be rudely told by a doctor “You can’t go into that room, that person’s dead.” She doesn’t remember what happened next, but supposedly she tried to strangle the doctor and had to be restrained by the people who went with her to the hospital.)
This is not normal behavior on her part. This is domestic violence. The standard advice is to leave people who hit you. Possibly after clearly stating that you are not okay with being hit and you will leave if it continues, and giving her a chance to change her ways. Maybe she should work with a professional to help with her anger problems. But there is a significant risk that a person who regularly attacks you will escalate.