I second this observation (about IRC; I do not frequent the SSC subreddit, and so cannot comment on that part).
I think the key difference here is that IRC is set up in a very different way from, say, Discord, or Slack. Consider:
If I join a Discord server or a Slack workspace, everything on that server is controlled by some particular person or people, who have chosen to set it up; everything in that place, pertains to that community. Either I am there to interact with that community, or there’s no point in being there. Likewise, there is likely great overlap between the participants of one “channel” or another, as they are drawn from the same relatively small, tightly linked (by bonds of acquaintanceship) group of people.
If, on the other hand, I connect to an IRC network, such as Freenode, I will find that there is a tremendous profusion of channels (in excess of fifteen thousand, as I recall, by a count I once took); these are set up by the greatest variety of people, from many different communities, many or most of them having nothing at all to do with one another. The median overlap between the population of regulars of any two randomly selected IRC channels on Freenode (or most other IRC networks) is zero. Consequently, there can be vast differences in local culture, norms, etc., between IRC channels on the same network.
Consider also that on Discord or Slack, each of the channels on the server/workspace have been set up, deliberately, by the leaders of the local community—and thus the existence of any channel on a Discord server or a Slack workspace implies that the community, and its leadership, endorse and approve of the existence of that channel, and of the discussions that take place therein.
On IRC, on the other hand, anyone—anyone at all, from any channel or community, or simply anyone who connects to the network, can create a new channel (simply by joining it). If, for example, you see a channel called ##BobJones, and another channel called ##BobJonesIsAWeenie, can you conclude that Bob Jones set up the second channel, or that he endorses its existence, or that he even knows about it? You cannot. (Indeed, you can’t even conclude that about the first channel—but that’s beside the point.)
Then there is the very important technical/UX difference. If I join a Discord server or a Slack workspace, I can easily and at a glance see what channels are available. I can thus immediately see a list of all the sorts of discussions that this particular community, and its leaders, endorse.
Whereas if I connect to the Freenode IRC network… well, it is possible to view a list of all channels, in principle. (Although some IRC clients will not let you easily do this.) But then what? Will you scroll through the entire five-digit-strong list of channels? How do you know which ones are related to each other? Which ones are set up by whom, endorse by whom, frequented by whom? You don’t.
Thus the structural and technical differences between different communications protocols/systems go quite a long way toward explaining these different social experiences. (And I happen to think that in this—as in everything else—IRC is by far the superior of its more modern “competitors”.)
Great points here. The UI/UX distinction is key here in my view—when the act of creating a containment space necessarily makes the existence of such a space visible, the problem I’ve described is much more relevant than when the existence sort of space is not immediately apparent to users—even if via simple obscurity in a huge list, as with IRC.
(One potential way to address this in Discord is to make the containment space opt-in, but in my experience this has not been particularly effective, in part because the best way to do this on Discord (roles) is itself quite easy to notice.)
I second this observation (about IRC; I do not frequent the SSC subreddit, and so cannot comment on that part).
I think the key difference here is that IRC is set up in a very different way from, say, Discord, or Slack. Consider:
If I join a Discord server or a Slack workspace, everything on that server is controlled by some particular person or people, who have chosen to set it up; everything in that place, pertains to that community. Either I am there to interact with that community, or there’s no point in being there. Likewise, there is likely great overlap between the participants of one “channel” or another, as they are drawn from the same relatively small, tightly linked (by bonds of acquaintanceship) group of people.
If, on the other hand, I connect to an IRC network, such as Freenode, I will find that there is a tremendous profusion of channels (in excess of fifteen thousand, as I recall, by a count I once took); these are set up by the greatest variety of people, from many different communities, many or most of them having nothing at all to do with one another. The median overlap between the population of regulars of any two randomly selected IRC channels on Freenode (or most other IRC networks) is zero. Consequently, there can be vast differences in local culture, norms, etc., between IRC channels on the same network.
Consider also that on Discord or Slack, each of the channels on the server/workspace have been set up, deliberately, by the leaders of the local community—and thus the existence of any channel on a Discord server or a Slack workspace implies that the community, and its leadership, endorse and approve of the existence of that channel, and of the discussions that take place therein.
On IRC, on the other hand, anyone—anyone at all, from any channel or community, or simply anyone who connects to the network, can create a new channel (simply by joining it). If, for example, you see a channel called ##BobJones, and another channel called ##BobJonesIsAWeenie, can you conclude that Bob Jones set up the second channel, or that he endorses its existence, or that he even knows about it? You cannot. (Indeed, you can’t even conclude that about the first channel—but that’s beside the point.)
Then there is the very important technical/UX difference. If I join a Discord server or a Slack workspace, I can easily and at a glance see what channels are available. I can thus immediately see a list of all the sorts of discussions that this particular community, and its leaders, endorse.
Whereas if I connect to the Freenode IRC network… well, it is possible to view a list of all channels, in principle. (Although some IRC clients will not let you easily do this.) But then what? Will you scroll through the entire five-digit-strong list of channels? How do you know which ones are related to each other? Which ones are set up by whom, endorse by whom, frequented by whom? You don’t.
Thus the structural and technical differences between different communications protocols/systems go quite a long way toward explaining these different social experiences. (And I happen to think that in this—as in everything else—IRC is by far the superior of its more modern “competitors”.)
Great points here. The UI/UX distinction is key here in my view—when the act of creating a containment space necessarily makes the existence of such a space visible, the problem I’ve described is much more relevant than when the existence sort of space is not immediately apparent to users—even if via simple obscurity in a huge list, as with IRC.
(One potential way to address this in Discord is to make the containment space opt-in, but in my experience this has not been particularly effective, in part because the best way to do this on Discord (roles) is itself quite easy to notice.)