Doing a firecracker, a dynamite stick or a nuke are very different even thought they are all “incendiary devices”. Being disillusioned of “psychoactive” when you are only familiar with it in the “scare context” and then “pop the bubble” with coffee makes for a bad generalization. Mastering firecrackers does not make you ready to run a nuclear program.
Hearing that somebody did a professional demolition with dynamite and then thinking you are okay to build a hobbyist nuke in your basement is not really comparable.
In the case it seems he is going to DIY it, it might make sense to try to direct the attention to the proper way to get those experiences to be in clean rooms, administered by professionals and in cooperation with other people. There are some initiatives that do psychodelics for spiritual aims, which might be a easier sell to get it practically done (to get attention off street vendors or basement chemistry). Going that route there is more likelyhood to spend time with people that are used to talking down people for doing it for the wrong reasons and to have “responcible weird people” if he has lost trust for the “normies”. I doubt that very many LSD people would actually recommend to be popping it like pain medication.
Workcapacity wrecking psychosis trigger rate should not be literally 0 and getting that kind of stuff correct is hard to bullshit. Being sober instead of flippant about the risks moves it from resisting a bad way of doing things to providing a good and responcible way of doing things.
He’s trying to be cautious and would start with microdoses (kind of concerns me that he has a thought-out plan already), and has already brought up the idea of participating in an observational study as a source for psychedelics.
We’re going to discuss the long-term risks further, but his argument is that therapeutic doses of amphetamines and LSD are less “nukes” and more “firecrackers”, using your analogy. I don’t agree due to addictive potential, but his plan can’t really be countered with “it’s too ambitious and you’re going to die because you don’t know what you’re doing”
If, after all you discuss with him, he still seems hell-bent on it, would it be sensible that he do it legally and above the age of majority under the care of a professional? I would think that in many parts of the country, a psychiatrist can now assist with a psilocybin treatment. That is certainly in a different league from “I bought this shit in a bag from a guy named Lou and I’m going to put some Tool on and take it. Should be fine.”
The variables you’re controlling (set, setting, dose, PURITY OF PRODUCT, safe plan in case of abreaction, etc, etc) would seem all very important for taking mind-altering chemicals. The arguments that it’s probably safer than alcohol really do fail on some of those matters (particularly purity of product, in my opinion—if I buy Bacardi rum, I know it’s a controlled production. Lou’s LSD could have, nBOME, for example.)
Some of this you might bring up even if he’s not so hell bent. The studies done in medical settings on psychedelics have vastly more certainty of purity than the product you bought from some guy, no matter how you slice things. Meanwhile LSD synthesis is both illegal and highly non-trivial. I guess if he were to really synthesize pure LSD, you are talking about him doing it after he finishes his degree in Chem, so you have a few years to go. By then I would think he would have enough knowledge of the legal risks to steer well clear of that.
And I will say the next part as someone who likes occasional psychedelic use in safe settings (usually with an MD present and overseeing the use, though less formally than a clinical setting). I even use it sometimes to help with mild depression. I have not personally met anyone who takes psychedelics, or any drugs, a lot who isn’t really screwed up. I mean, I have taken them a grand total of seven times in my 38 years on Earth, and I think they have been net good.
However, to the last man, everyone I know who takes psychedelics often each year, or recreationally and frequently on weekends, has got problems. Just like everyone I know who smokes pot regularly has got problems. I’m sure there are regular illicit drug users out there who are fine, but I have never seen one in the wild, and I have known dozens of regular drug users. The ones I know who are functional also take it extremely rarely and with the same MD present as me, thus with a known controlled product and in a safe setting.
Meanwhile, the people I know who drink alcohol 50 times a year, or drink coffee 400 times a year, are generally all functional, and I know dozens of these people currently. All this is to say there may be something not well captured in, for example, the NIH chart of drug risks that puts LSD and Mushrooms way down at the bottom and alcohol up near the top. Here on Lesswrong, the contrarian view that the mainstream might be wrong is embraced, well I am suggesting that the mainstream NIH drug impact assessment might have issues as well.
Starting with microdoses sounds responsible if he’s determined to try. I’d recommend doing some research together on the addictiveness of different substances if you’re concerned about addictive potential specifically. I don’t know a lot myself but I have read that some substances like psilocybin are very low on the addiction scale especially relative to ones that are super-addictive like heroin.
Doing a firecracker, a dynamite stick or a nuke are very different even thought they are all “incendiary devices”. Being disillusioned of “psychoactive” when you are only familiar with it in the “scare context” and then “pop the bubble” with coffee makes for a bad generalization. Mastering firecrackers does not make you ready to run a nuclear program.
Hearing that somebody did a professional demolition with dynamite and then thinking you are okay to build a hobbyist nuke in your basement is not really comparable.
In the case it seems he is going to DIY it, it might make sense to try to direct the attention to the proper way to get those experiences to be in clean rooms, administered by professionals and in cooperation with other people. There are some initiatives that do psychodelics for spiritual aims, which might be a easier sell to get it practically done (to get attention off street vendors or basement chemistry). Going that route there is more likelyhood to spend time with people that are used to talking down people for doing it for the wrong reasons and to have “responcible weird people” if he has lost trust for the “normies”. I doubt that very many LSD people would actually recommend to be popping it like pain medication.
Workcapacity wrecking psychosis trigger rate should not be literally 0 and getting that kind of stuff correct is hard to bullshit. Being sober instead of flippant about the risks moves it from resisting a bad way of doing things to providing a good and responcible way of doing things.
He’s trying to be cautious and would start with microdoses (kind of concerns me that he has a thought-out plan already), and has already brought up the idea of participating in an observational study as a source for psychedelics.
We’re going to discuss the long-term risks further, but his argument is that therapeutic doses of amphetamines and LSD are less “nukes” and more “firecrackers”, using your analogy. I don’t agree due to addictive potential, but his plan can’t really be countered with “it’s too ambitious and you’re going to die because you don’t know what you’re doing”
If, after all you discuss with him, he still seems hell-bent on it, would it be sensible that he do it legally and above the age of majority under the care of a professional? I would think that in many parts of the country, a psychiatrist can now assist with a psilocybin treatment. That is certainly in a different league from “I bought this shit in a bag from a guy named Lou and I’m going to put some Tool on and take it. Should be fine.”
The variables you’re controlling (set, setting, dose, PURITY OF PRODUCT, safe plan in case of abreaction, etc, etc) would seem all very important for taking mind-altering chemicals. The arguments that it’s probably safer than alcohol really do fail on some of those matters (particularly purity of product, in my opinion—if I buy Bacardi rum, I know it’s a controlled production. Lou’s LSD could have, nBOME, for example.)
Some of this you might bring up even if he’s not so hell bent. The studies done in medical settings on psychedelics have vastly more certainty of purity than the product you bought from some guy, no matter how you slice things. Meanwhile LSD synthesis is both illegal and highly non-trivial. I guess if he were to really synthesize pure LSD, you are talking about him doing it after he finishes his degree in Chem, so you have a few years to go. By then I would think he would have enough knowledge of the legal risks to steer well clear of that.
And I will say the next part as someone who likes occasional psychedelic use in safe settings (usually with an MD present and overseeing the use, though less formally than a clinical setting). I even use it sometimes to help with mild depression. I have not personally met anyone who takes psychedelics, or any drugs, a lot who isn’t really screwed up. I mean, I have taken them a grand total of seven times in my 38 years on Earth, and I think they have been net good.
However, to the last man, everyone I know who takes psychedelics often each year, or recreationally and frequently on weekends, has got problems. Just like everyone I know who smokes pot regularly has got problems. I’m sure there are regular illicit drug users out there who are fine, but I have never seen one in the wild, and I have known dozens of regular drug users. The ones I know who are functional also take it extremely rarely and with the same MD present as me, thus with a known controlled product and in a safe setting.
Meanwhile, the people I know who drink alcohol 50 times a year, or drink coffee 400 times a year, are generally all functional, and I know dozens of these people currently. All this is to say there may be something not well captured in, for example, the NIH chart of drug risks that puts LSD and Mushrooms way down at the bottom and alcohol up near the top. Here on Lesswrong, the contrarian view that the mainstream might be wrong is embraced, well I am suggesting that the mainstream NIH drug impact assessment might have issues as well.
Starting with microdoses sounds responsible if he’s determined to try. I’d recommend doing some research together on the addictiveness of different substances if you’re concerned about addictive potential specifically. I don’t know a lot myself but I have read that some substances like psilocybin are very low on the addiction scale especially relative to ones that are super-addictive like heroin.