Yes, writing down Sharia should have some effect, but what? I doubt the Koran is more specific than Deuteronomy 21:18-20, which vaguely talks about killing disobedient sons, but is pretty widely ignored.
I think the most useful part of the concept of memes is to separate belief from belief-in-belief.
My previous comment emphasized the public too much. I don’t mean to dispute that people believe in the rightness of what they do. I’m not talking about peer pressure to change one’s actions. I do mean that neighbors influence people’s morals, but mainly I object to the claim that people actually believe auxiliary factual claims that are made in their morality. I don’t believe Harris’s claim the Taliban choose their morals based on beliefs about afterlife. Did you honor your mother and father in order to live long? Did you keep the covenant with Abraham so that your descendents would be as numerous as the stars?
First, it’s not just the uncle—it’s the father, too.
Yes. Why do you bring this up? Has anyone proposed a theory under which the father and uncle act differently?
First, it’s not just the uncle—it’s the father, too.
Yes. Why do you bring this up? Has anyone proposed a theory under which the father and uncle act differently?
Yes, this theory is commonly called evolution.
My point is that it takes some pretty strong mental forces to overcome natural attachment of father for the daughter. Shame by itself does not seem to make the cut.
You are assuming your conclusion: that shame is weaker than belief. Evolution is irrelevant to your argument.
Yes, evolution distinguishes between the father and the uncle, but shame+evolution and afterlife+evolution do so equally. Kin selection quantifies the expected differential action and it’s pretty small—a factor of two. If you claim that shame would motivate the uncle and not the father, then you need a quantified theory of shame that is equally precise.
I gave an example where a father killed his daughter with lots of evidence that it was shame, not belief, so shame makes the cut, regardless of whether supernatural reward does.
Parents kill their children quite often. It’s not that much to overcome.
Yes, writing down Sharia should have some effect, but what? I doubt the Koran is more specific than Deuteronomy 21:18-20, which vaguely talks about killing disobedient sons, but is pretty widely ignored.
I think the most useful part of the concept of memes is to separate belief from belief-in-belief.
My previous comment emphasized the public too much. I don’t mean to dispute that people believe in the rightness of what they do. I’m not talking about peer pressure to change one’s actions. I do mean that neighbors influence people’s morals, but mainly I object to the claim that people actually believe auxiliary factual claims that are made in their morality. I don’t believe Harris’s claim the Taliban choose their morals based on beliefs about afterlife. Did you honor your mother and father in order to live long? Did you keep the covenant with Abraham so that your descendents would be as numerous as the stars?
Yes. Why do you bring this up? Has anyone proposed a theory under which the father and uncle act differently?
Yes, this theory is commonly called evolution.
My point is that it takes some pretty strong mental forces to overcome natural attachment of father for the daughter. Shame by itself does not seem to make the cut.
You are assuming your conclusion: that shame is weaker than belief. Evolution is irrelevant to your argument.
Yes, evolution distinguishes between the father and the uncle, but shame+evolution and afterlife+evolution do so equally. Kin selection quantifies the expected differential action and it’s pretty small—a factor of two. If you claim that shame would motivate the uncle and not the father, then you need a quantified theory of shame that is equally precise.
I gave an example where a father killed his daughter with lots of evidence that it was shame, not belief, so shame makes the cut, regardless of whether supernatural reward does.
Parents kill their children quite often. It’s not that much to overcome.