I think I might be talking past you. Let me try to re-frame my confusion:
Art calls Ben “girly” because Ben has exhibited stereotypically feminine trait F.
Meanwhile, Amy calls Bev “mannish” because Bev has exhibited stereotypically masculine trait M.
It looks like both Ben and Bev should be insulted, by about the same amount, and you seemed to assent to this, above.
Given this background, if Random Internet Person goes on to refer to Amy as “he” and Art as “she”, whence your above indication that Art should be more insulted than Amy?
Well put. I’m not myself exposed to what girls do to each other behind the scenes while I know males far better. Would you consider ‘mannish’ to be a ubiquitous insult? If so then Art should not be insulted more than Amy by ‘he’/‘she’ mistakes.
My impression is that ‘mannish’ is used less than ‘girly’ to such a degree that the implied insult (by this specific mechanism) of ‘he’ is much less ‘she’.
And I can’t think of ‘mannish’ being used ever. My impression was that female competition tended to be a little more sophisticated than banal locker room banter.
Austin Powers: You must admit she is rather mannish. Really, if that is a woman she must have been beaten with an ugly stick.
Good point. Now I can think of one.
Vanessa: That’s you in a nutshell.
Austin Powers: No, this is me in a nutshell: ‘Help! I’m in a nutshell. How did I get into this bloody great big nutshell? What kind of shell has a nut like this?’
I think I might be talking past you. Let me try to re-frame my confusion:
Art calls Ben “girly” because Ben has exhibited stereotypically feminine trait F.
Meanwhile, Amy calls Bev “mannish” because Bev has exhibited stereotypically masculine trait M.
It looks like both Ben and Bev should be insulted, by about the same amount, and you seemed to assent to this, above.
Given this background, if Random Internet Person goes on to refer to Amy as “he” and Art as “she”, whence your above indication that Art should be more insulted than Amy?
Well put. I’m not myself exposed to what girls do to each other behind the scenes while I know males far better. Would you consider ‘mannish’ to be a ubiquitous insult? If so then Art should not be insulted more than Amy by ‘he’/‘she’ mistakes.
My impression is that ‘mannish’ is used less than ‘girly’ to such a degree that the implied insult (by this specific mechanism) of ‘he’ is much less ‘she’.
I can’t think of a way to non-insultingly apply “mannish” to a woman.
And I can’t think of ‘mannish’ being used ever. My impression was that female competition tended to be a little more sophisticated than banal locker room banter.
Well, I don’t think it would customarily be said to one’s face...
I’d say that “mannish” is an obsolete insult—in use in the 1940s and 1950s (I’m going by feel on this).
“Looks like a man” is current, and specifically about appearance.
I’m not sure if there are standard insults used by women to other women about other masculine traits.
Have you never seen Austin Powers?
Good point. Now I can think of one.
And that is just damn funny.