I think I’m reasonably Catholic, even though I don’t know anything about the living Catholic leaders.
This might be a bit off-topic, but I’m very confused by this. I was raised Catholic, and the Wikipedia description matches my understanding of Catholicism (compared to other Christian denominations)
Do you not know who the living Pope is, while still believing he’s the successor to Saint Peter and has authority delegated from Jesus to rule over the entire Church?
Or do you disagree with the Wikipedia and the Catholic Church definitions of the core beliefs of Catholicism?
Definitely think that on the margin, more “directly verifying base reality with your own eyes” would be good in EA circles. Eg at one point, I was very critical of those mission trips to Africa where high schoolers spend a week digging a well; “obviously you should just send cash!” But now I’m much more sympathetic.
I’m confused by this as well. All the people I know who worked on those trips (either as an organiser or as a volunteer) don’t think it helped their epistemics at all, compared to e.g. reading the literature on development economics. I definitely think on the ground experience is extremely valuable (see this recent comment and this classic post) but I think watching vegan documentaries, visiting farms, and doing voluntourism are all bad ways to improve the accuracy of your map of actual reality.
Do you not know who the living Pope is, while still believing he’s the successor to Saint Peter and has authority delegated from Jesus to rule over the entire Church?
I understand that the current pope is Pope Francis, but I know much much more about the worldviews of folks like Joe Carlsmith or Holden Karnofsky, compared to the pope. I don’t feel this makes me not Catholic; I continue to go to church every Sunday, live my life (mostly) in accordance with Catholic teaching, etc. Similarly, I can’t name my senator or representative and barely know what Biden stands for, but I think I’m reasonably American.
All the people I know who worked on those trips (either as an organiser or as a volunteer) don’t think it helped their epistemics at all, compared to e.g. reading the literature on development economics.
I went on one of those trips as a middle schooler (to Mexico, not Africa). I don’t know that it helped my epistemics much, but I did get like, a visceral experience of what the life of someone in a third-world country would be like, that I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise and no amount of research literature reading would replicate.
I don’t literally think that every EA should book plane tickets to Africa, or break into a factory farm, or whatnot. (though: I would love to see some folks try this!) I do think there’s an overreliance on consuming research and data, and an underreliance on just doing things and having reality give you feedback.
I understand that the current pope is Pope Francis, but I know much much more about the worldviews of folks like Joe Carlsmith or Holden Karnofsky, compared to the pope.
That makes sense, thanks. I would say that compared to Catholicism, in EA you have much less reason to care about the movement leaders, as them having authority to rule over EA is not part of its beliefs.
I don’t literally think that every EA should book plane tickets to Africa, or break into a factory farm, or whatnot. (though: I would love to see some folks try this!)
For what it’s worth, I’ve talked with several people I’ve met through EA who regularly “break” into factory farms[1] or who regularly work in developing countries.
It’s definitely possible that it should be more, but I would claim that the percentage of people doing this is much higher than baseline among people who know about EA, and I think it can have downsides for the reasons mentioned in ‘Against Empathy.’
They claim that they enter them without any breaking, I can’t verify that claim, but I can verify that they have videos of themselves inside factory farms.
This might be a bit off-topic, but I’m very confused by this. I was raised Catholic, and the Wikipedia description matches my understanding of Catholicism (compared to other Christian denominations)
Do you not know who the living Pope is, while still believing he’s the successor to Saint Peter and has authority delegated from Jesus to rule over the entire Church?
Or do you disagree with the Wikipedia and the Catholic Church definitions of the core beliefs of Catholicism?
I’m confused by this as well. All the people I know who worked on those trips (either as an organiser or as a volunteer) don’t think it helped their epistemics at all, compared to e.g. reading the literature on development economics. I definitely think on the ground experience is extremely valuable (see this recent comment and this classic post) but I think watching vegan documentaries, visiting farms, and doing voluntourism are all bad ways to improve the accuracy of your map of actual reality.
I understand that the current pope is Pope Francis, but I know much much more about the worldviews of folks like Joe Carlsmith or Holden Karnofsky, compared to the pope. I don’t feel this makes me not Catholic; I continue to go to church every Sunday, live my life (mostly) in accordance with Catholic teaching, etc. Similarly, I can’t name my senator or representative and barely know what Biden stands for, but I think I’m reasonably American.
I went on one of those trips as a middle schooler (to Mexico, not Africa). I don’t know that it helped my epistemics much, but I did get like, a visceral experience of what the life of someone in a third-world country would be like, that I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise and no amount of research literature reading would replicate.
I don’t literally think that every EA should book plane tickets to Africa, or break into a factory farm, or whatnot. (though: I would love to see some folks try this!) I do think there’s an overreliance on consuming research and data, and an underreliance on just doing things and having reality give you feedback.
That makes sense, thanks. I would say that compared to Catholicism, in EA you have much less reason to care about the movement leaders, as them having authority to rule over EA is not part of its beliefs.
For what it’s worth, I’ve talked with several people I’ve met through EA who regularly “break” into factory farms[1] or who regularly work in developing countries.
It’s definitely possible that it should be more, but I would claim that the percentage of people doing this is much higher than baseline among people who know about EA, and I think it can have downsides for the reasons mentioned in ‘Against Empathy.’
They claim that they enter them without any breaking, I can’t verify that claim, but I can verify that they have videos of themselves inside factory farms.