Look. The ethics mankind predominantly has, they do exist in the real world that’s around you. Alternate ethics that works at all for a technological society blah blah blah, we don’t know of any, we just speculate that they may exist. edit: worse than that, speculate in this fuzzy manner where it’s not even specified how they may exist. Different ethics of aliens that evolved on different habitable planets? No particular reason to expect that there won’t be one that is by far most probable. Which would be implied by the laws of physics themselves, but given multiple realizability, it may even be largely independent of underlying laws of physics (evolution doesn’t care if it’s quarks on the bottom or cells in a cellular automation or what), in which case its rather close to being on par with mathematics.
Even now ethics in different parts of the world, and even between political parties, are different. You should know that more than most, having lived in two systems.
If it turns out that most space-faring civilizations have similar ethics, that would be good for us. But then also there would be a difference between “most widespread code of ethics” and “objectively correct code of ethics for any agent anywhere”. Most common != correct.
Even now ethics in different parts of the world, and even between political parties, are different. You should know that more than most, having lived in two systems.
There’s a ridiculous amount of similarity on anything major, though. If we pick ethics of first man on the moon, or first man to orbit the earth, it’s pretty same.
If it turns out that most space-faring civilizations have similar ethics, that would be good for us. But then also there would be a difference between “most widespread code of ethics” and “objectively correct code of ethics for any agent anywhere”. Most common != correct.
Yes, and most common math is not guaranteed to be correct (not even in the sense of not being self contradictory). Yet, that’s no argument in favour of math equivalent of moral relativism. (Which, if such a silly thing existed, would look something like 2*2=4 is a social convention! it could have been 5!) .
edit: also, a cross over from other thread: It’s obvious that nukes are an ethical filter, i.e. some ethics are far better at living through that than others. Then there will be biotech and other actual hazards, and boys screaming wolf for candy (with and without awareness of why), and so on.
Look. The ethics mankind predominantly has, they do exist in the real world that’s around you.
Actually, I understand Kawoomba believes humanity has mutually contradictory ethics. He has stated that he would cheerfully sacrifice the human race—“it would make as much difference if it were an icecream” were his words, as I recall—if it would guaranteeing the safety of the things he values.
Well, that’s rather odd coz I do value the human race and so do most people. Ethics is a social process, most of “possible” ethics as a whole would have left us unable to have this conversation (no computers) or altogether dead.
Well, that’s rather odd coz I do value the human race and so do most people.
That was pretty much everyone’s reaction.
Ethics is a social process, most of “possible” ethics as a whole would have left us unable to have this conversation (no computers) or altogether dead.
I’d say I’m not the best person to explain this, but considering how long it took me to understand it, maybe I am.
Hoo boy...
OK, you can persuade someone they were wrong about their terminal values. Therefore, you can change someone’s terminal values. Since different cultures are different, humans have wildly varying terminal values.
Also, since kids are important to evolution, parents evolved to value their kids over the rest of humanity. Now, technically that’s the same as not valuing the rest of humanity at all, but don’t worry; people are stupid.
Also, you’re clearly a moral realist, since you think everyone secretly believes in your One True Value System! But you see, this is stupid, because Clippy.
Look. The ethics mankind predominantly has, they do exist in the real world that’s around you. Alternate ethics that works at all for a technological society blah blah blah, we don’t know of any, we just speculate that they may exist. edit: worse than that, speculate in this fuzzy manner where it’s not even specified how they may exist. Different ethics of aliens that evolved on different habitable planets? No particular reason to expect that there won’t be one that is by far most probable. Which would be implied by the laws of physics themselves, but given multiple realizability, it may even be largely independent of underlying laws of physics (evolution doesn’t care if it’s quarks on the bottom or cells in a cellular automation or what), in which case its rather close to being on par with mathematics.
Even now ethics in different parts of the world, and even between political parties, are different. You should know that more than most, having lived in two systems.
If it turns out that most space-faring civilizations have similar ethics, that would be good for us. But then also there would be a difference between “most widespread code of ethics” and “objectively correct code of ethics for any agent anywhere”. Most common != correct.
There’s a ridiculous amount of similarity on anything major, though. If we pick ethics of first man on the moon, or first man to orbit the earth, it’s pretty same.
Yes, and most common math is not guaranteed to be correct (not even in the sense of not being self contradictory). Yet, that’s no argument in favour of math equivalent of moral relativism. (Which, if such a silly thing existed, would look something like 2*2=4 is a social convention! it could have been 5!) .
edit: also, a cross over from other thread: It’s obvious that nukes are an ethical filter, i.e. some ethics are far better at living through that than others. Then there will be biotech and other actual hazards, and boys screaming wolf for candy (with and without awareness of why), and so on.
Actually, I understand Kawoomba believes humanity has mutually contradictory ethics. He has stated that he would cheerfully sacrifice the human race—“it would make as much difference if it were an icecream” were his words, as I recall—if it would guaranteeing the safety of the things he values.
Well, that’s rather odd coz I do value the human race and so do most people. Ethics is a social process, most of “possible” ethics as a whole would have left us unable to have this conversation (no computers) or altogether dead.
That was pretty much everyone’s reaction.
I’d say I’m not the best person to explain this, but considering how long it took me to understand it, maybe I am.
Hoo boy...
OK, you can persuade someone they were wrong about their terminal values. Therefore, you can change someone’s terminal values. Since different cultures are different, humans have wildly varying terminal values.
Also, since kids are important to evolution, parents evolved to value their kids over the rest of humanity. Now, technically that’s the same as not valuing the rest of humanity at all, but don’t worry; people are stupid.
Also, you’re clearly a moral realist, since you think everyone secretly believes in your One True Value System! But you see, this is stupid, because Clippy.
Any questions?
Hmmm. A touch of sarcasm there? Maybe even parody?
I disagree with him, and it probably shows; I’m not sugar-coating his arguments. But these are Kawoomba’s genuine beliefs as best I can convey them.