…it looks like Valentine is never going to write the promised post…
It was Mythic Mode. I guess that went over everyone’s heads.
I had a sequence in mind, on “ontology cracking”. I gave up on that sequence when it became obvious that Less Wrong really wasn’t interested in that direction at all. So I ended up never describing how I thought mythic mode worked on me, and how it might generalize.
But honestly, Mythic Mode has all the ingredients you need if you want to work it out.
It also seems worth noting, I’ve gotten way more PCK on the whole thing since then, and now I have approaches that are a fair bit more straightforward. More zen-like. Kinder. So the approach I advocate these days feels different and is more grounded & stable.
You seem to have quite missed the point of that exchange.
But honestly, I’m tired of arguing with logic machines about this. No, I cannot prove to you that it’s not your daughter’s arm. No, that fact does not cause me to question my certainty that it’s not your daughter’s arm. Yes, I understand you think I’m crazy or deluded. I am sorry I don’t know how to help you; it is beyond my skill, and my human heart hurts for being so misunderstood so much here.
But honestly, I’m tired of arguing with logic machines about this. No, I cannot prove to you that it’s not your daughter’s arm. No, that fact does not cause me to question my certainty that it’s not your daughter’s arm. Yes, I understand you think I’m crazy or deluded. I am sorry I don’t know how to help you; it is beyond my skill, and my human heart hurts for being so misunderstood so much here.
Isn’t this an ironic choice of metaphor? The situation rather more resembles you insisting that it’s your daughter’s arm, being certain of this despite many other people thinking that you’re not quite in touch with reality, being impervious to demonstrations or proofs that it’s your arm, etc.
(Of course, I don’t think that the metaphor is quite apt either way. I don’t think that what you’ve said is obviously wrong in the same way that the stroke patient’s arm-ownership claim is obviously wrong; rather, it’s mostly unclear to me what you’re claiming in the first place, and to the extent that it is clear, the claims seem vague, etc. Indeed, it would be a much easier discussion if you were merely saying [apparently-]straightforwardly-wrong things… And, conversely, I don’t think that I’ve said anything, or at least not anything very important, in this discussion, which could be construed as a straightforward claim like “this [is / is not] my daughter’s arm”, which might then be claimed to be obviously true or obviously false.)
Isn’t this an ironic choice of metaphor? The situation rather more resembles you insisting that it’s your daughter’s arm, being certain of this despite many other people thinking that you’re not quite in touch with reality, being impervious to demonstrations or proofs that it’s your arm, etc.
Of course it’s not ironic. What do you think the patient must think about the doctor’s certainty?
It was Mythic Mode. I guess that went over everyone’s heads.
I had a sequence in mind, on “ontology cracking”. I gave up on that sequence when it became obvious that Less Wrong really wasn’t interested in that direction at all. So I ended up never describing how I thought mythic mode worked on me, and how it might generalize.
But honestly, Mythic Mode has all the ingredients you need if you want to work it out.
It also seems worth noting, I’ve gotten way more PCK on the whole thing since then, and now I have approaches that are a fair bit more straightforward. More zen-like. Kinder. So the approach I advocate these days feels different and is more grounded & stable.
I might try to share some of that at some point.
You seem to have quite missed the point of that exchange.
But honestly, I’m tired of arguing with logic machines about this. No, I cannot prove to you that it’s not your daughter’s arm. No, that fact does not cause me to question my certainty that it’s not your daughter’s arm. Yes, I understand you think I’m crazy or deluded. I am sorry I don’t know how to help you; it is beyond my skill, and my human heart hurts for being so misunderstood so much here.
Isn’t this an ironic choice of metaphor? The situation rather more resembles you insisting that it’s your daughter’s arm, being certain of this despite many other people thinking that you’re not quite in touch with reality, being impervious to demonstrations or proofs that it’s your arm, etc.
(Of course, I don’t think that the metaphor is quite apt either way. I don’t think that what you’ve said is obviously wrong in the same way that the stroke patient’s arm-ownership claim is obviously wrong; rather, it’s mostly unclear to me what you’re claiming in the first place, and to the extent that it is clear, the claims seem vague, etc. Indeed, it would be a much easier discussion if you were merely saying [apparently-]straightforwardly-wrong things… And, conversely, I don’t think that I’ve said anything, or at least not anything very important, in this discussion, which could be construed as a straightforward claim like “this [is / is not] my daughter’s arm”, which might then be claimed to be obviously true or obviously false.)
Of course it’s not ironic. What do you think the patient must think about the doctor’s certainty?