I still don’t quite grasp the DNA point, even after multiple reads—how would compressibility make it show up in mythos? I can’t find any non-reddit / youtube source on his statements (Freedom is keeping a patient eye on my browsing habits, as always).
I don’t disagree that mathematical truth is, in a certain sense, “higher” than other truths.
I’d just like to point out that if I could consistently steelman Eliezer’s posts, I’d probably be smarter and more rational than he (and no, I cannot do this).
For the DNA point, I’m drawing on some mathematical intuition. Here are two examples:
What if I told you that ancient Egyptian civilizations had depictions of the hyperbolic cosineex+e−x2 even though they never came close to discovering the constant e? Well, the hyperbolic cosine is also called the catenary, which is the not-quite-parabola shape that all uniformly-weighted chains make if held from their two ends. So of course this shape was everywhere!
What if I told you that a physicist who had never studied prime number theory discovered the distribution of the zeros of the Riemann zeta function (that had escaped the attention of number theorists)? It turns out that this is basically how random matrix theory was discovered by Dyson and Montgomery.
The point is that mathematically interesting structures show up in not-obviously-connected ways. Now if I could tell you what exactly the structural property of DNA was, then I would actually believe Peterson’s claim about it, which I don’t. But at least a start to this question is: suppose a thousand genetic life forms evolved independently on a thousand planets. How many mathematically different information storage structures like the double helix would appear? Probably not more than 10, right? Most likely there’s something canonically robust and efficient about the way information is packed into DNA molecules.
Re: steelmanning. Really what I’m doing is translating Peterson into language more palatable to rationalists. Perhaps you could call this steelmanning.
How many mathematically different information storage structures like the double helix would appear? Probably not more than 10, right? Most likely there’s something canonically robust and efficient about the way information is packed into DNA molecules.
I’d agree with this claim, but it feels pretty anthropically-true to me. If it weren’t the case, we wouldn’t be able to exist.
Really what I’m doing is translating Peterson into language more palatable to rationalists. Perhaps you could call this steelmanning.
Once understood, chains of reasoning should (ideally) be accepted or rejected regardless of their window dressing. I may be turned off by what he says due to his mannerisms / vocabulary, but once I take the time to really understand what he’s claiming… If I still find his argumentation lacking, then rephrasing it in an actually-more-defensible way is steelmanning. I haven’t taken that time (and can’t really, at the moment), but I suspect if I did, I’d still conclude that there is no steel strong enough to construct a beisutsukai out of someone who believes in god.
The crux of the matter is that he believes in God then? I’ll also let him speak for himself, but as far as I can tell he doesn’t by your definition of believe in God. Furthermore, I’ve always been an atheist and not changed any object-level beliefs on that front since I can remember, but I think with respect to Peterson’s definitions I also believe in God.
I still don’t quite grasp the DNA point, even after multiple reads—how would compressibility make it show up in mythos? I can’t find any non-reddit / youtube source on his statements (Freedom is keeping a patient eye on my browsing habits, as always).
I don’t disagree that mathematical truth is, in a certain sense, “higher” than other truths.
I’d just like to point out that if I could consistently steelman Eliezer’s posts, I’d probably be smarter and more rational than he (and no, I cannot do this).
For the DNA point, I’m drawing on some mathematical intuition. Here are two examples:
What if I told you that ancient Egyptian civilizations had depictions of the hyperbolic cosine ex+e−x2 even though they never came close to discovering the constant e? Well, the hyperbolic cosine is also called the catenary, which is the not-quite-parabola shape that all uniformly-weighted chains make if held from their two ends. So of course this shape was everywhere!
What if I told you that a physicist who had never studied prime number theory discovered the distribution of the zeros of the Riemann zeta function (that had escaped the attention of number theorists)? It turns out that this is basically how random matrix theory was discovered by Dyson and Montgomery.
The point is that mathematically interesting structures show up in not-obviously-connected ways. Now if I could tell you what exactly the structural property of DNA was, then I would actually believe Peterson’s claim about it, which I don’t. But at least a start to this question is: suppose a thousand genetic life forms evolved independently on a thousand planets. How many mathematically different information storage structures like the double helix would appear? Probably not more than 10, right? Most likely there’s something canonically robust and efficient about the way information is packed into DNA molecules.
Re: steelmanning. Really what I’m doing is translating Peterson into language more palatable to rationalists. Perhaps you could call this steelmanning.
I’d agree with this claim, but it feels pretty anthropically-true to me. If it weren’t the case, we wouldn’t be able to exist.
Once understood, chains of reasoning should (ideally) be accepted or rejected regardless of their window dressing. I may be turned off by what he says due to his mannerisms / vocabulary, but once I take the time to really understand what he’s claiming… If I still find his argumentation lacking, then rephrasing it in an actually-more-defensible way is steelmanning. I haven’t taken that time (and can’t really, at the moment), but I suspect if I did, I’d still conclude that there is no steel strong enough to construct a beisutsukai out of someone who believes in god.
The crux of the matter is that he believes in God then? I’ll also let him speak for himself, but as far as I can tell he doesn’t by your definition of believe in God. Furthermore, I’ve always been an atheist and not changed any object-level beliefs on that front since I can remember, but I think with respect to Peterson’s definitions I also believe in God.