(Edit) Upon further reading of the link you provided… This is pretty typical behavior from the masses. And, it is a form of irrational dancing where they just tend to be so opaque in their responses that they make no sense.
In the post you (Eliezer) made about the “click” (or people just “Getting” it), the conversation he recalled where a woman was discussing “magic” was one which usually involves this sort of logical rudeness (except in the case Eliezer recounted, the woman was rational enough to see his point).
Usually, the conversation would decay into a dance involving “what is real, anyway”, or “That doesn’t matter, because I still have these experiences,” which is followed by an explanation of why those experiences don’t show at all what the person asserting their truth thinks, only to have them say “Well, then, that doesn’t matter because I just know” (Or have faith, etc.)
The weakening of claims is just another part of this dance, where they will just carry on as if nothing has happened (if anyone has ever read any of the threads in the Faith & Religion section of Richard Dawkins’ or Sam Harris’ web site forums, these sorts of behavior are very well known).
In my attempts, on those forums to try to promote more rational thought, I have found in maddeningly difficult to get the basic concepts of logic and critical thought across. They always assume that they know logic, even when the phrase Modus Tollens/Ponens means nothing to them. These people don’t even understand the terms Proposition or Axiom as logical terms, nor how to recognize or create one of these logical structures.
So, rather than try to counter their claims, I usually will try to just teach them how to make a logical argument. It is at least the first step, even if they are really still nursing on the baby-bottle of logic and rationality.
Isn’t this just simply equivocating?
(Edit) Upon further reading of the link you provided… This is pretty typical behavior from the masses. And, it is a form of irrational dancing where they just tend to be so opaque in their responses that they make no sense.
In the post you (Eliezer) made about the “click” (or people just “Getting” it), the conversation he recalled where a woman was discussing “magic” was one which usually involves this sort of logical rudeness (except in the case Eliezer recounted, the woman was rational enough to see his point).
Usually, the conversation would decay into a dance involving “what is real, anyway”, or “That doesn’t matter, because I still have these experiences,” which is followed by an explanation of why those experiences don’t show at all what the person asserting their truth thinks, only to have them say “Well, then, that doesn’t matter because I just know” (Or have faith, etc.)
The weakening of claims is just another part of this dance, where they will just carry on as if nothing has happened (if anyone has ever read any of the threads in the Faith & Religion section of Richard Dawkins’ or Sam Harris’ web site forums, these sorts of behavior are very well known).
In my attempts, on those forums to try to promote more rational thought, I have found in maddeningly difficult to get the basic concepts of logic and critical thought across. They always assume that they know logic, even when the phrase Modus Tollens/Ponens means nothing to them. These people don’t even understand the terms Proposition or Axiom as logical terms, nor how to recognize or create one of these logical structures.
So, rather than try to counter their claims, I usually will try to just teach them how to make a logical argument. It is at least the first step, even if they are really still nursing on the baby-bottle of logic and rationality.