Maybe we should try harder to decode the prophecies. For example, there was a cool theory on Reddit that “the very stars in heaven” refers to members of the Black family, who are all named after stars. In particular, Bellatrix might be feeling like she’s in heaven right now.
But I’m more interested in the first prophecy. What does it mean that “these two different spirits cannot exist in the same world”? The word “cannot” seems to say it’s impossible from some point of view, not just dangerous.
1) Maybe any interaction between Harry’s and Quirrell’s spells would cause a time travel paradox for some reason?
2) Maybe any interaction would trigger a bug in the Source of Magic and cause it to crash, because Harry and Quirrell are using the same username and password to access magic, which the developers assumed cannot happen?
Or else “cannot exist in the same cauldron”, which I like to take rather literally (hence my “Big Potion” theory which tears apart the stars not as a side effect but as an ingredient, and fails if quirrel interacts with its creation.)
It’s a prophecy: information about the future. Maybe it’s simply saying that either one could win, but there’s no possible future where both exist (except for a remnant). Any “why” is a just-so story for human consumption; the raw prophecied fact is simply that fork in the road.
Contradicted by several statements that prophecies are for human consumption, and specifically for people who have the power to fulful or prevent those particular prophecies. See discussion of seers and temporal pressure.
And the messages would come out in riddles, and only someone who heard the prophecy in the seer’s original voice would hear all the meaning that was in the riddle. There was no possible way that Millicent could just give out a prophecy any time she wanted, about school bullies, and then remember it, and if she had it would’ve come out as ‘the skeleton is the key’ and not ‘Susan Bones has to be there’. (Ch.77)
I really like the idea of “the very stars in heaven” referring to the Black family for several reasons. For one, Sirius has been alluded to several times, but has not shown up yet. “He is coming” and “He is here” don’t really seem like they could apply to Harry or Quirrell or anyone else we’ve actually seen at Hogwarts so far. The question of what happened to Sirius and Pettigrew in this reality is one of several dangling plot threads I expect the author to wrap up before ending the story, and Eliezer doesn’t have many chapters left in which to do it. It seems likely this happens at the same time he answers what really happened in Godric’s Hollow on October 31, 1981; and perhaps leads to Harry’s final break with Quirrell. There are a couple of other dangling plot threads that could be wrapped up here too: why did the Remembrall light up, and what about Bellatrix?
Secondly, although Harry’s clearly interested in the source of magic and the nature of reality, the story becomes too much of a Monty Haul if he really does achieve star-destroying omnipotence. Stories about omnipotent beings just aren’t very much fun (insert citations to several hundred Marvel Comics storylines of the last 30 years) and I think Eliezer is just too good an author to fall prey to that.
On the other hand the story has huge amounts of interest and foreshadowing around matters of time: ComedTea where the future causes the past, time turners, prophecies, timeless quantum mechanics, timeless decision theory (used repeatedly by Harry but not identified as such by name) and I’ve probably forgotten one or two. I expect Harry to at least try something funny involving time to save Hermione. And if it works I expect we’re going to realize we should have seen it coming. However I will be very disappointed if it’s nothing more than a deus ex machina resurrection like Superman II.
There were some more direct hints that time travel was involved in events that already happened. In the story of Weasley’s pet rat:
Guy was convinced he was ninety-seven years old and had died and gone back in time to his younger self via train station. (Ch.29)
In the dictionary attack on Hermione:
“Just what do you think you know, and how do you think you know it, anyway?” -- “Time—” The voice seemed to catch itself. “Time enough for that later.” (Ch.77)
Forgive me if others have mentioned this idea, or if there is firm evidence that it isn’t possible, but..
I’ve been thinking about this since early on. I know most people feel that Quirrel is Voldemort, but I keep wondering if he’s a future, middle-aged Harry from an alternate timeline (but (probably) not the canon timeline). I wonder if Harry destroyed the his universe as prophecied trying to save Hermione, and then time traveled to make another attempt. However, this would cause a paradox, but there is a theory that time travel paradoxes can be avoided if one also switches travels to another universe.
There are a number of things that make me think this, including:
1) “I don’t suppose,” said Harry, “that it’s possible to actually swap people into alternate universes? Like, this isn’t our own Rita Skeeter, or they temporarily sent her somewhere else?”
“If that was possible,” Professor Quirrell said, his voice rather dry, “would I still be here? ”
EY later tells us to pay attention to when Quirrell answered without answering. The implication is, “It is possible, and that’s why I’m here.”
2) At some point Quirrell is quite surprised when Harry explains how he thinks, or says that he wouldn’t lie about something serious, as if it differs from his own memory of his way of thinking as child Harry.
3) There’s the trope that time travelers can’t touch their past selves without disastrous consequences (the sense of doom, and effects of their magics interacting).
4) Your examples above.
Unfortunately, I have to run, but I have some more examples and will post soon, unless someone shoots this out of the water.
EDIT:
And this is, at least, his second possession, the first being the Weasley brother who thought the rat was Pettigrew? That would have been when future Harry realised he wasn’t in his own timeline any longer.
And this is, at least, his second possession, the first being the Weasley brother who thought the rat was Pettigrew? That would have been when future Harry realised he wasn’t in his own timeline any longer.
Good ones. At the time I read “Guy was convinced he was ninety-seven years old and had died and gone back in time to his younger self via train station.” as being a shoutout to several other time-travel based fan fiction stories like Harry Potter and the Nightmares of Futures Past, Oh God Not Again!, Backward with Purpose, and His Own Man; but it could equally well be hinting at a time traveler or two working behind the scenes in this story.
Honestly, there have been so many time travel based stories that I really hope this doesn’t turn into another one.
I took that part of the first prophecy as being about death and transhumanism (or some related idea). I’m not sure exactly how that maps onto Harry and Voldemort without relying on metaphors, though.
Maybe we should try harder to decode the prophecies. For example, there was a cool theory on Reddit that “the very stars in heaven” refers to members of the Black family, who are all named after stars. In particular, Bellatrix might be feeling like she’s in heaven right now.
But I’m more interested in the first prophecy. What does it mean that “these two different spirits cannot exist in the same world”? The word “cannot” seems to say it’s impossible from some point of view, not just dangerous.
1) Maybe any interaction between Harry’s and Quirrell’s spells would cause a time travel paradox for some reason?
2) Maybe any interaction would trigger a bug in the Source of Magic and cause it to crash, because Harry and Quirrell are using the same username and password to access magic, which the developers assumed cannot happen?
Or else “cannot exist in the same cauldron”, which I like to take rather literally (hence my “Big Potion” theory which tears apart the stars not as a side effect but as an ingredient, and fails if quirrel interacts with its creation.)
It’s a prophecy: information about the future. Maybe it’s simply saying that either one could win, but there’s no possible future where both exist (except for a remnant). Any “why” is a just-so story for human consumption; the raw prophecied fact is simply that fork in the road.
Contradicted by several statements that prophecies are for human consumption, and specifically for people who have the power to fulful or prevent those particular prophecies. See discussion of seers and temporal pressure.
In HPMOR prophecies are riddles:
I really like the idea of “the very stars in heaven” referring to the Black family for several reasons. For one, Sirius has been alluded to several times, but has not shown up yet. “He is coming” and “He is here” don’t really seem like they could apply to Harry or Quirrell or anyone else we’ve actually seen at Hogwarts so far. The question of what happened to Sirius and Pettigrew in this reality is one of several dangling plot threads I expect the author to wrap up before ending the story, and Eliezer doesn’t have many chapters left in which to do it. It seems likely this happens at the same time he answers what really happened in Godric’s Hollow on October 31, 1981; and perhaps leads to Harry’s final break with Quirrell. There are a couple of other dangling plot threads that could be wrapped up here too: why did the Remembrall light up, and what about Bellatrix?
Secondly, although Harry’s clearly interested in the source of magic and the nature of reality, the story becomes too much of a Monty Haul if he really does achieve star-destroying omnipotence. Stories about omnipotent beings just aren’t very much fun (insert citations to several hundred Marvel Comics storylines of the last 30 years) and I think Eliezer is just too good an author to fall prey to that.
On the other hand the story has huge amounts of interest and foreshadowing around matters of time: ComedTea where the future causes the past, time turners, prophecies, timeless quantum mechanics, timeless decision theory (used repeatedly by Harry but not identified as such by name) and I’ve probably forgotten one or two. I expect Harry to at least try something funny involving time to save Hermione. And if it works I expect we’re going to realize we should have seen it coming. However I will be very disappointed if it’s nothing more than a deus ex machina resurrection like Superman II.
There were some more direct hints that time travel was involved in events that already happened. In the story of Weasley’s pet rat:
In the dictionary attack on Hermione:
Forgive me if others have mentioned this idea, or if there is firm evidence that it isn’t possible, but..
I’ve been thinking about this since early on. I know most people feel that Quirrel is Voldemort, but I keep wondering if he’s a future, middle-aged Harry from an alternate timeline (but (probably) not the canon timeline). I wonder if Harry destroyed the his universe as prophecied trying to save Hermione, and then time traveled to make another attempt. However, this would cause a paradox, but there is a theory that time travel paradoxes can be avoided if one also switches travels to another universe.
There are a number of things that make me think this, including:
1) “I don’t suppose,” said Harry, “that it’s possible to actually swap people into alternate universes? Like, this isn’t our own Rita Skeeter, or they temporarily sent her somewhere else?”
“If that was possible,” Professor Quirrell said, his voice rather dry, “would I still be here? ”
EY later tells us to pay attention to when Quirrell answered without answering. The implication is, “It is possible, and that’s why I’m here.”
2) At some point Quirrell is quite surprised when Harry explains how he thinks, or says that he wouldn’t lie about something serious, as if it differs from his own memory of his way of thinking as child Harry.
3) There’s the trope that time travelers can’t touch their past selves without disastrous consequences (the sense of doom, and effects of their magics interacting).
4) Your examples above.
Unfortunately, I have to run, but I have some more examples and will post soon, unless someone shoots this out of the water.
EDIT:
And this is, at least, his second possession, the first being the Weasley brother who thought the rat was Pettigrew? That would have been when future Harry realised he wasn’t in his own timeline any longer.
And this is, at least, his second possession, the first being the Weasley brother who thought the rat was Pettigrew? That would have been when future Harry realised he wasn’t in his own timeline any longer.
Good ones. At the time I read “Guy was convinced he was ninety-seven years old and had died and gone back in time to his younger self via train station.” as being a shoutout to several other time-travel based fan fiction stories like Harry Potter and the Nightmares of Futures Past, Oh God Not Again!, Backward with Purpose, and His Own Man; but it could equally well be hinting at a time traveler or two working behind the scenes in this story.
Honestly, there have been so many time travel based stories that I really hope this doesn’t turn into another one.
I took that part of the first prophecy as being about death and transhumanism (or some related idea). I’m not sure exactly how that maps onto Harry and Voldemort without relying on metaphors, though.