Instead, marriage is discussed in advance, possibly for months, instead of the man making a surprise offer.
Was it seriously ever any other way? That’s hard for me to imagine. A surprise offer? Without the couple ever discussing it before? Even if the man proposes, as is traditional, would someone really propose without talking about it first?
This cry of “was it ever done any other way?” strikes me as historically naive… arranged marriages happened, after all, and still happen. During certain space-time periods I understand it is/was customary to have much younger brides than grooms, in which case it seems more reasonable to surprise rather than discuss (since the groom may not have a great desire for the young bride’s opinions in the matter).
In any case, it seems the question should be answered by a historical sociologist...
Well, yes, of course arranged marriages happened, but arranged marriages were typically discussed and planned among the families involved. I’m referring to this idea of marriage proposals in the “old sense”, where the groom springs the question on the bride and it’s the bride’s decision to accept or reject, right then. (Maybe I’m misunderstanding something.)
If we’re to believe almost every (American) movie ever to include a marriage proposal, then yes.
(On the other hand, movies can be rather slow to reflect changing cultural norms. I think the “If anyone knows any reason blah blah speak now or forever hold your peace” line is only done in movies now. Still, such cliches had to originally come from somewhere.)
This is false. You may be remembering the questions of intent in the Rite of Catholic Marriage, in which the priest asks both spouses to state their intent to marry. (The consent of spouses, freely spoken, has traditionally established the marriage in Catholic belief.) There is no question asked of the assembly.
Here’s an excerpt of this part of the rite, including a link to the whole marriage ceremony:
The current Book of Common Prayer, however (used by Episcopalians and Anglicans), does seem to preserve this language. I think it was originally an English custom in any case.
Was it seriously ever any other way? That’s hard for me to imagine. A surprise offer? Without the couple ever discussing it before? Even if the man proposes, as is traditional, would someone really propose without talking about it first?
This cry of “was it ever done any other way?” strikes me as historically naive… arranged marriages happened, after all, and still happen. During certain space-time periods I understand it is/was customary to have much younger brides than grooms, in which case it seems more reasonable to surprise rather than discuss (since the groom may not have a great desire for the young bride’s opinions in the matter).
In any case, it seems the question should be answered by a historical sociologist...
Well, yes, of course arranged marriages happened, but arranged marriages were typically discussed and planned among the families involved. I’m referring to this idea of marriage proposals in the “old sense”, where the groom springs the question on the bride and it’s the bride’s decision to accept or reject, right then. (Maybe I’m misunderstanding something.)
If we’re to believe almost every (American) movie ever to include a marriage proposal, then yes.
(On the other hand, movies can be rather slow to reflect changing cultural norms. I think the “If anyone knows any reason blah blah speak now or forever hold your peace” line is only done in movies now. Still, such cliches had to originally come from somewhere.)
I average going to about 2 weddings a year, and I think most weddings I go to still have it. I’m pretty sure Catholic services still mandate it.
This is false. You may be remembering the questions of intent in the Rite of Catholic Marriage, in which the priest asks both spouses to state their intent to marry. (The consent of spouses, freely spoken, has traditionally established the marriage in Catholic belief.) There is no question asked of the assembly.
Here’s an excerpt of this part of the rite, including a link to the whole marriage ceremony:
http://www.catholicweddinghelp.com/topics/text-rite-of-marriage-mass.htm
The current Book of Common Prayer, however (used by Episcopalians and Anglicans), does seem to preserve this language. I think it was originally an English custom in any case.
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/marriage.pdf
It’s probably no surprise that the default movie mode in the United States would be Anglican, not Catholic.
Thanks for the cite