FWIW, I don’t think it is true—you don’t have far to go to find a claim that, say, women are crazy, or black people steal, or half a dozen other terribly politically incorrect things(true ones and false ones). But a big part of the reason is because we have these unofficial lines of communication. Good luck finding official data on things like racial crime stats—self-censorship has basically destroyed that. Chris Rock is all we’re left with.
Huh, it seems it’s not as bad as I’ve thought. I’ve heard a lot of debate over the years about police forces not collecting the data, but I suppose that’s not true everywhere. Good to know.
So, OK, if you don’t think it’s true that the use of stereotypes in humor is a safety valve to avert groupthink, I’m not exactly sure why you said that when I asked, but I’m happy to drop that line of discussion.
Now you seem to be saying that the use of stereotypes in humor is a safety valve to avert censorship… do you actually think that?
It’s a way of saying things that aren’t supposed to be said. Whether the level of “supposed to” is a bit of moral outrage(like it is today), or a gulag(like it was in the Soviet Union), people use jokes to get around barriers. That serves the function of evading censorship sometimes, as well as the function of undermining certain kinds of groupthink to a certain extent. It’s not perfect, but it serves a role.
And now we’ve switched from talking about the value of stereotypes in humor to the value of humor more generally. I agree with your statements about the value of humor more generally, and am otherwise tapping out here.
I tend to think of stereotypes as a comedic aid, at least the sort that can easily be discussed here. I think that’s why the conversation has shifted. I will admit that I sort of lost the plot, though.
The stereotypes I actually use to guess at people’s traits tend to be embedded in details of how people dress, talk, and act—I’ve successfully pegged people’s personalities pretty closely from nothing more than the glasses they wear before—but that’s not the sort of thing you can discuss very easily on a text board.
For stereotypes specifically, I think the only dangerous thing that they really avert is excessive political correctness. Insisting that people be perfectly blind to observable characteristics of others is a silly position to take, and stereotypes are sort of an implicit summary of the evidence attached to an observable characteristic. Actual data is preferable, when it’s available, but for some of the soft attributes it’s not. “Groupthink” was a bit of a snarky way of phrasing it, and not a particularly accurate one. I’m not speaking about groupthink in general, I’m speaking about a particular kind that happens to be present in some parts of modern society.
I agree that insisting that people be perfectly blind to observable characteristics of others is a silly position to take, and I can see where using stereotypes in humor stands in opposition to that position, and therefore provides some (though not necessarily net) positive value.
FWIW, I don’t think it is true—you don’t have far to go to find a claim that, say, women are crazy, or black people steal, or half a dozen other terribly politically incorrect things(true ones and false ones). But a big part of the reason is because we have these unofficial lines of communication. Good luck finding official data on things like racial crime stats—self-censorship has basically destroyed that. Chris Rock is all we’re left with.
huh?
Huh, it seems it’s not as bad as I’ve thought. I’ve heard a lot of debate over the years about police forces not collecting the data, but I suppose that’s not true everywhere. Good to know.
Oh.
So, OK, if you don’t think it’s true that the use of stereotypes in humor is a safety valve to avert groupthink, I’m not exactly sure why you said that when I asked, but I’m happy to drop that line of discussion.
Now you seem to be saying that the use of stereotypes in humor is a safety valve to avert censorship… do you actually think that?
It’s a way of saying things that aren’t supposed to be said. Whether the level of “supposed to” is a bit of moral outrage(like it is today), or a gulag(like it was in the Soviet Union), people use jokes to get around barriers. That serves the function of evading censorship sometimes, as well as the function of undermining certain kinds of groupthink to a certain extent. It’s not perfect, but it serves a role.
And now we’ve switched from talking about the value of stereotypes in humor to the value of humor more generally. I agree with your statements about the value of humor more generally, and am otherwise tapping out here.
I tend to think of stereotypes as a comedic aid, at least the sort that can easily be discussed here. I think that’s why the conversation has shifted. I will admit that I sort of lost the plot, though.
The stereotypes I actually use to guess at people’s traits tend to be embedded in details of how people dress, talk, and act—I’ve successfully pegged people’s personalities pretty closely from nothing more than the glasses they wear before—but that’s not the sort of thing you can discuss very easily on a text board.
For stereotypes specifically, I think the only dangerous thing that they really avert is excessive political correctness. Insisting that people be perfectly blind to observable characteristics of others is a silly position to take, and stereotypes are sort of an implicit summary of the evidence attached to an observable characteristic. Actual data is preferable, when it’s available, but for some of the soft attributes it’s not. “Groupthink” was a bit of a snarky way of phrasing it, and not a particularly accurate one. I’m not speaking about groupthink in general, I’m speaking about a particular kind that happens to be present in some parts of modern society.
I agree that insisting that people be perfectly blind to observable characteristics of others is a silly position to take, and I can see where using stereotypes in humor stands in opposition to that position, and therefore provides some (though not necessarily net) positive value.