Do you think that response won’t work, isn’t worth the effort, is aimed at a non-problem, or other criticism?
I have a lot of time for the sentiment in the blog post you linked to, but don’t think privilege is a necessary concept in order to appreciate it. I don’t even believe it’s the most obvious criticism of the behaviour in question.
By way of analogy, lets say Pat wanders around everywhere with a sword and Chris doesn’t wander around everywhere with a sword. If Pat stabs the defenceless Chris in the chest with a sword, you could frame this in the context of power dynamics, and bemoan how Pat has “sword privilege”, but this doesn’t really get to the core of the problem.
Calling out Pat’s sword privilege doesn’t offer any explanation as to why Pat has the sword, or why Pat was motivated to stab Chris. It provides us with a narrative for establishing blame and victimhood, but it doesn’t actually tell us anything about the underlying situation or how to remedy it, at any level.
Ultimately, I think that a lot of ordinary social injustice arises because no one speaks out loud “Don’t do that.” Essentially, unwillingness to discuss social rules.
Saying “Parental Abuse is Wrong” is a useless Applause Light for most people.
Calling out Pat’s sword privilege doesn’t offer any explanation as to why Pat has the sword, or why Pat was motivated to stab Chris.
In case it isn’t clear, I agree that calling out sword-privilege is only worthwhile if it reduces similar sword-privilege-abuse in the future. It’s an empirical question whether (1) calling out privilege reduces abuse or (2) explaining why Pat has the sword is helpful to anything (figuring out what the abuse is, how to response effectively, or anything else). I suspect yes for both. But even if the answer to (2) is no, that doesn’t demonstrate the answer to (1) is no.
Does it not seem odd to you to view the case of an unarmed person being stabbed by an armed assailant as an issue of social justice by default?
This is perhaps an unfair question, because I placed it in that context to begin with, but one of the things that’s so maddening about the whole subject is how (for want of a better term) privilege is so privileged as an explanatory mechanism. There are certainly circumstances where it has merit, but it seems a ridiculous weapon of choice in circumstances where more appropriate explanatory mechanisms exist.
Does it not seem odd to you to view the case of an unarmed person being stabbed by an armed assailant as an issue of social justice by default? . . . This is perhaps an unfair question . . .
Perhaps? :) I choose not to fightyour hypothetical and you get upvotes for closing the trap. Not a big deal, but not cool.
more appropriate explanatory mechanisms exist.
I’m interested in hearing about them, and using them to figure out how to be more effective in figuring out what social changes are better for my terminal values and causing those changes.
Edit: Also, let’s not forget that there are high status locals who deny that the problem we are talking about even exists.
It wasn’t intended as a trap. Part of the point of the hypothetical was that “sword-privilege” is a bit of a silly idea, and not an obvious go-to choice for reasoning about people stabbing other people. I genuinely didn’t expect you to put up a defence for it.
As for explanatory mechanisms, I tend to favour explanations from economics and systems-based sciences, as they have a rich catalogue of unusual behaviour patterns that arise from interacting parties being given different choices. I’m generally quite cautious in their application, though, because it doesn’t take much for an elegant and aesthetically-pleasing model to be subtly wrong.
As for explanatory mechanisms, I tend to favour explanations from economics and systems-based sciences
Fair enough. As you noted, the risk with any analytical framework is that it intentionally or unintentionally becomes a single variable analysis—and thus useless. My sense is that economics applied to social interactions is particularly at risk for this type of problem—leading either to Marxism or blogosphere ev. psych.
It wasn’t intended as a trap. Part of the point of the hypothetical was that “sword-privilege” is a bit of a silly idea, and not an obvious go-to choice for reasoning about people stabbing other people.
Ah, I see. You were trying to change the topic—and I missed it.
I certainly agree that privilege is a terrible framework for analyzing actual swords-in-unarmed-people situations. But that wasn’t the topic and I didn’t want to talk about those situations—so I assumed you were making a somewhat hostile metaphor and choose not to call you on the hostility in order to keep engaging in the conversation. Talk about long inferential distance. :)
I have a lot of time for the sentiment in the blog post you linked to, but don’t think privilege is a necessary concept in order to appreciate it. I don’t even believe it’s the most obvious criticism of the behaviour in question.
By way of analogy, lets say Pat wanders around everywhere with a sword and Chris doesn’t wander around everywhere with a sword. If Pat stabs the defenceless Chris in the chest with a sword, you could frame this in the context of power dynamics, and bemoan how Pat has “sword privilege”, but this doesn’t really get to the core of the problem.
Calling out Pat’s sword privilege doesn’t offer any explanation as to why Pat has the sword, or why Pat was motivated to stab Chris. It provides us with a narrative for establishing blame and victimhood, but it doesn’t actually tell us anything about the underlying situation or how to remedy it, at any level.
Ultimately, I think that a lot of ordinary social injustice arises because no one speaks out loud “Don’t do that.” Essentially, unwillingness to discuss social rules.
Saying “Parental Abuse is Wrong” is a useless Applause Light for most people.
Saying “It is not normal to be afraid of your parents, and not normal to be unhappy whenever you’re at home” is more likely to be effective at creating good change.
In case it isn’t clear, I agree that calling out sword-privilege is only worthwhile if it reduces similar sword-privilege-abuse in the future. It’s an empirical question whether (1) calling out privilege reduces abuse or (2) explaining why Pat has the sword is helpful to anything (figuring out what the abuse is, how to response effectively, or anything else). I suspect yes for both. But even if the answer to (2) is no, that doesn’t demonstrate the answer to (1) is no.
Does it not seem odd to you to view the case of an unarmed person being stabbed by an armed assailant as an issue of social justice by default?
This is perhaps an unfair question, because I placed it in that context to begin with, but one of the things that’s so maddening about the whole subject is how (for want of a better term) privilege is so privileged as an explanatory mechanism. There are certainly circumstances where it has merit, but it seems a ridiculous weapon of choice in circumstances where more appropriate explanatory mechanisms exist.
Perhaps? :)
I choose not to fight your hypothetical and you get upvotes for closing the trap. Not a big deal, but not cool.
I’m interested in hearing about them, and using them to figure out how to be more effective in figuring out what social changes are better for my terminal values and causing those changes.
Edit: Also, let’s not forget that there are high status locals who deny that the problem we are talking about even exists.
It wasn’t intended as a trap. Part of the point of the hypothetical was that “sword-privilege” is a bit of a silly idea, and not an obvious go-to choice for reasoning about people stabbing other people. I genuinely didn’t expect you to put up a defence for it.
As for explanatory mechanisms, I tend to favour explanations from economics and systems-based sciences, as they have a rich catalogue of unusual behaviour patterns that arise from interacting parties being given different choices. I’m generally quite cautious in their application, though, because it doesn’t take much for an elegant and aesthetically-pleasing model to be subtly wrong.
Fair enough. As you noted, the risk with any analytical framework is that it intentionally or unintentionally becomes a single variable analysis—and thus useless. My sense is that economics applied to social interactions is particularly at risk for this type of problem—leading either to Marxism or blogosphere ev. psych.
Ah, I see. You were trying to change the topic—and I missed it.
I certainly agree that privilege is a terrible framework for analyzing actual swords-in-unarmed-people situations. But that wasn’t the topic and I didn’t want to talk about those situations—so I assumed you were making a somewhat hostile metaphor and choose not to call you on the hostility in order to keep engaging in the conversation. Talk about long inferential distance. :)
I think I’m going to start explicitly stating my discussion goals in advance. If it doesn’t keep me on topic, it will at least keep me honest.