I am precommitting to not engaging with any comments, because I am mostly offline and I think that is good
Statements looking like this are the parts I agree with the most! Politics and everything similar kind of suck. Trying to formalize something subjective, and enforcing a absolute global conclusion to something inherently relative, is not a game worth playing. I’d even argue that not trying in the first place might be for the best. Just go full Taoism here.
handling non-criminal misconduct
Why would you do this? If you’ve been on the internet for over 15 years, you should have noticed that we went from moderating rules and laws, to moderating people based on impressions, feelings and moral values. This is how nautrality died, and how the internet became politicalized. It’s also when the internet started growing stupid (probably because the average intelligence and autistic and nerdy tendencies fell over time)
I don’t think that due process is impossible when it comes to crimes and concrete rules and laws. But when it comes to subjective things like being a “good person” or a “bad person”, it’s very difficult. To be frank, I think it’s bad taste to try and force other people to adopt ones own opinions in the first place. Tribalism and herd dynamics is the very issue, not the solution, as those in the dynamic naively thinks (because they’re converging towards a shared opinion, which they think is equal to solving the problem). The entire problem with echo-chambers are common discrimination is basically that holistic thinking is replaced by thinking in labels.
I think that if you have a community with reasonable people, none of this is a problem. And if you have a community with unreasonable people (which I define as the most common type of person, those prone to conformity and tribalism rather than individualism), then no system can help you. Unreasonable people don’t even want fairness and justice in the first place, but revenge. They’ll call their revenge “justice” of course, but this is only true from their experienced subjective reality / storytelling. It’s a sort of delusion, but it’s not inherently bad as those who are too disillusioned end up doing nothing, whereas those who truly care are able to influence the world.
Anyway, trying to solve problematic herd behaviour with a system or process is like trying to solve low intelligence with better education, it won’t work. Social dynamics are self-balancing, if somebody is an unlikable person, they will become disliked over time naturally. Trying to impose artificial systems to overwrite natural systems is where the modern society fails, for you can’t design complex processes/systems and just have them work. These things work bottom-up, not top-down.
What disturbs this balance is only people trying to control the world rather than letting things follow a natural flow. But (and this might be a lazy tautology), that too is self-balancing in a sense, as a community which cannot hold itself together will split in two or destroy itself.
If something requires constant effort, it’s a sign that you’re trying forcing something into an unnatural state. After reaching this unnatural state, you have a complex problem with many factors, which is why I argue “Avoid getting in the state in the first place, or just let the thing collapse”.
In any case, I think we’re trying to solve the wrong problem here. If somebody hasn’t broken the law, I don’t want to brainstorm how we can punish them and get public opinion on our side in hating them. On the other hand, if somebody is disliked by everyone, then you can argue their innocence all that you want, peoples feelings are unlikely to change by logical argument
Statements looking like this are the parts I agree with the most! Politics and everything similar kind of suck.
Trying to formalize something subjective, and enforcing a absolute global conclusion to something inherently relative, is not a game worth playing. I’d even argue that not trying in the first place might be for the best. Just go full Taoism here.
Why would you do this? If you’ve been on the internet for over 15 years, you should have noticed that we went from moderating rules and laws, to moderating people based on impressions, feelings and moral values. This is how nautrality died, and how the internet became politicalized. It’s also when the internet started growing stupid (probably because the average intelligence and autistic and nerdy tendencies fell over time)
I don’t think that due process is impossible when it comes to crimes and concrete rules and laws. But when it comes to subjective things like being a “good person” or a “bad person”, it’s very difficult. To be frank, I think it’s bad taste to try and force other people to adopt ones own opinions in the first place. Tribalism and herd dynamics is the very issue, not the solution, as those in the dynamic naively thinks (because they’re converging towards a shared opinion, which they think is equal to solving the problem). The entire problem with echo-chambers are common discrimination is basically that holistic thinking is replaced by thinking in labels.
I think that if you have a community with reasonable people, none of this is a problem. And if you have a community with unreasonable people (which I define as the most common type of person, those prone to conformity and tribalism rather than individualism), then no system can help you. Unreasonable people don’t even want fairness and justice in the first place, but revenge. They’ll call their revenge “justice” of course, but this is only true from their experienced subjective reality / storytelling. It’s a sort of delusion, but it’s not inherently bad as those who are too disillusioned end up doing nothing, whereas those who truly care are able to influence the world.
Anyway, trying to solve problematic herd behaviour with a system or process is like trying to solve low intelligence with better education, it won’t work. Social dynamics are self-balancing, if somebody is an unlikable person, they will become disliked over time naturally. Trying to impose artificial systems to overwrite natural systems is where the modern society fails, for you can’t design complex processes/systems and just have them work. These things work bottom-up, not top-down.
I think that doesn’t count as self-balancing unless that’s the only way to become disliked.
What disturbs this balance is only people trying to control the world rather than letting things follow a natural flow. But (and this might be a lazy tautology), that too is self-balancing in a sense, as a community which cannot hold itself together will split in two or destroy itself.
If something requires constant effort, it’s a sign that you’re trying forcing something into an unnatural state. After reaching this unnatural state, you have a complex problem with many factors, which is why I argue “Avoid getting in the state in the first place, or just let the thing collapse”.
In any case, I think we’re trying to solve the wrong problem here. If somebody hasn’t broken the law, I don’t want to brainstorm how we can punish them and get public opinion on our side in hating them. On the other hand, if somebody is disliked by everyone, then you can argue their innocence all that you want, peoples feelings are unlikely to change by logical argument