The lack of creatures with appendages suitable for tool wielding
Do we know that? Iguanodons for example have hands that look not all that terribly far off from hands suitable for tool use, some related species that we didn’t find in the fossile record yet evolving proper hands doesn’t seem impossible to me.
I have very little idea. Last I heard the brontosaurus doesn’t even exist and the triceratops is really just an immature torosaurus. That gives a ballpark for how much confidence I can have in my knowledge of the species in that era.
This is incorrect. The name “brontosaurus” is incorrect. But the nomenclature correction to apatosaurus did not come with any change in our understanding of the species.
This is incorrect. The name “brontosaurus” is incorrect. But the nomenclature correction to apatosaurus did not come with any change in our understanding of the species.
While that which was labelled brontosaurus was later subsumed into the previously identified genus apatosaurus the early reconstructed fossil which popularized our image of the brontosourus was also discovered to include a head based of models of camarasaurus skulls. That and it was supposedly forced to live in the water because it was too large to support itself on land. Basically the ‘brontosourus’ that I read about as a child is mostly bullshit.
Even this much I didn’t have anything but the vaguest knowledge of until I read through the wikipedia page. As for possible tool capable appendages or even traces of radioactive isotopes I really have very little confidence in knowing about. It just isn’t my area of interest.
Even this much I didn’t have anything but the vaguest knowledge of until I read through the wikipedia page.
Wikipedia is a pretty up-to-date source on dinosaurs, with lots of avid and interested editors on the topic. (The artistic reconstructions come close to being original research, but a reconstruction tends not to be used until it’s passed a gamut of severely critical and knowledgeable editors.)
Remember that it’s quite an active field, with new discoveries and extrapolations therefrom all the time. It surprises me slightly how much we know from what little evidence we have, and that we nevertheless do actually know quite a bit. (I have a dinosaur-mad small child who critiques the dinosaur books for kids from the library. Anything over a couple of years old is useless.)
Camarasaurus is a close relative, the use of it as a model for reconstructing the skull was deliberate. (Moreover, modern data shows that it was in fact quite a good reconstruction.) The water thing did turn out to be just wrong, but that’s not any different than about the scale of change that has happened with a lot of dinosaurs (for example the changing understanding of how T-Rex hunted.) There’s certainly been a lot of changes (although most of the brontosaurus stuff was known a very long time ago and just took a lot of time to filter through to popular culture), but none of it amounts to “brontosaurus” not existing.
Moreover, modern data shows that it was in fact quite a good reconstruction.
What? No it doesn’t. It was found to be the totally wrong sauropod to pretend was a brontosourus head. Did you read the line in wikipedia backwards? (The wording could be a little more explicit, at a stretch there is ambiguity. The actual journal article is more clear.) Or did you just make that up as a plausible assumption? It should be based off the diplodocus.
Hmm, now looking per your suggestion at the Wikipedia article. They emphasize the degree of difference more than I remember it turning out to be an issue. The source they are using is here (may be a paywall). I don’t know enough paleontology to understand all the details of that paper. However, I suspect that to most laypeople a skull that resembles a diplodocus would be close to that of a camarasaurus so the issue may be a function of what one means by a good reconstruction. (I suspect that many 10 year olds could probably see the differences between a diplodocus skull and a torasaurus skull, but it would take more effort to point out the difference between diplodocus and camarasaurus.)
I suspect that many 10 year olds could probably see the differences between a diplodocus skull and a torasaurus skull, but it would take more effort to point out the difference between diplodocus and camarasaurus.
I could totally tell the difference between a camarasaurus and a raptor. That’s about my limit. And I know about raptors because they are cool. Also, they feature in fictional math tests.
However, I suspect that to most laypeople a skull that resembles a diplodocus would be close to that of a camarasaurus
They wouldn’t be able to describe the difference (or know either of those dinosours) but the difference when you look at a new apatosaurus compared to an old picture of a ‘brontosourus’ is rather stark. ie. The new one looks like a pussy.
Do we know that? Iguanodons for example have hands that look not all that terribly far off from hands suitable for tool use, some related species that we didn’t find in the fossile record yet evolving proper hands doesn’t seem impossible to me.
I have very little idea. Last I heard the brontosaurus doesn’t even exist and the triceratops is really just an immature torosaurus. That gives a ballpark for how much confidence I can have in my knowledge of the species in that era.
This is incorrect. The name “brontosaurus” is incorrect. But the nomenclature correction to apatosaurus did not come with any change in our understanding of the species.
While that which was labelled brontosaurus was later subsumed into the previously identified genus apatosaurus the early reconstructed fossil which popularized our image of the brontosourus was also discovered to include a head based of models of camarasaurus skulls. That and it was supposedly forced to live in the water because it was too large to support itself on land. Basically the ‘brontosourus’ that I read about as a child is mostly bullshit.
Even this much I didn’t have anything but the vaguest knowledge of until I read through the wikipedia page. As for possible tool capable appendages or even traces of radioactive isotopes I really have very little confidence in knowing about. It just isn’t my area of interest.
Wikipedia is a pretty up-to-date source on dinosaurs, with lots of avid and interested editors on the topic. (The artistic reconstructions come close to being original research, but a reconstruction tends not to be used until it’s passed a gamut of severely critical and knowledgeable editors.)
Remember that it’s quite an active field, with new discoveries and extrapolations therefrom all the time. It surprises me slightly how much we know from what little evidence we have, and that we nevertheless do actually know quite a bit. (I have a dinosaur-mad small child who critiques the dinosaur books for kids from the library. Anything over a couple of years old is useless.)
Camarasaurus is a close relative, the use of it as a model for reconstructing the skull was deliberate. (Moreover, modern data shows that it was in fact quite a good reconstruction.) The water thing did turn out to be just wrong, but that’s not any different than about the scale of change that has happened with a lot of dinosaurs (for example the changing understanding of how T-Rex hunted.) There’s certainly been a lot of changes (although most of the brontosaurus stuff was known a very long time ago and just took a lot of time to filter through to popular culture), but none of it amounts to “brontosaurus” not existing.
What? No it doesn’t. It was found to be the totally wrong sauropod to pretend was a brontosourus head. Did you read the line in wikipedia backwards? (The wording could be a little more explicit, at a stretch there is ambiguity. The actual journal article is more clear.) Or did you just make that up as a plausible assumption? It should be based off the diplodocus.
Hmm, now looking per your suggestion at the Wikipedia article. They emphasize the degree of difference more than I remember it turning out to be an issue. The source they are using is here (may be a paywall). I don’t know enough paleontology to understand all the details of that paper. However, I suspect that to most laypeople a skull that resembles a diplodocus would be close to that of a camarasaurus so the issue may be a function of what one means by a good reconstruction. (I suspect that many 10 year olds could probably see the differences between a diplodocus skull and a torasaurus skull, but it would take more effort to point out the difference between diplodocus and camarasaurus.)
I could totally tell the difference between a camarasaurus and a raptor. That’s about my limit. And I know about raptors because they are cool. Also, they feature in fictional math tests.
They wouldn’t be able to describe the difference (or know either of those dinosours) but the difference when you look at a new apatosaurus compared to an old picture of a ‘brontosourus’ is rather stark. ie. The new one looks like a pussy.