Thoughts on having part of the holiday be “have tasty food easily accessible (perhaps within sight range) during the fast”?
Pros:
It’s in keeping with the original story.
It can help us see the dangers of having instant gratification available, and let us practice our ability to resist short-term urges for long-term benefits.
If the goal of rationalist holidays is to help us feel like our own community, then this could help people feel more “special”. Many religions have holidays that call for a fast, but as far as I know none of them expect one to tempt themselves.
Cons:
It makes the fast harder. If people are used to their self-control strategy being “don’t tempt myself”, this will be new to them, and if they end up breaking their fast, they’d likely feel demoralized.
It looks like you’re framing this as a decision being made by and for a group as a whole (as opposed to an individual observation designed by and for each person themselves). Can you say more on why you believe that’s the best frame? My sense is a lot of the off-LW conflict over Vavilov Day boils down to the framing of individual vs. collective decision.
The framing wasn’t an intentional choice, I wasn’t considering that aspect when I made the comment. I haven’t been privy to any of the off-LW conflict about it, so it wasn’t something that I was primed to look out for. I am not suggesting that there should be a community-wide standard (or that there shouldn’t be). I intended it as “here’s an idea that people may find interesting.”
This conjures a mental image of getting a particularly delicious and delicious-looking dessert and leaving it front and center on the table for the 3 days, not to be cut into until the fast is over. This could fit well with a modified form of food abstinence, such as avoiding all sweet snacks and desserts, for those whose work demands or other circumstances are incompatible with complete fasting.
If many people observed in this way, I would imagine a competitive aspect emerging: who can celebrate by not-eating the most tempting-looking Vlavilov Day treat?
While friendly competition can be good in many contexts, I don’t think this is one of them. The holiday is about a dedicated team who were willing to die together for their cause. I don’t think competing to see who can go the longest without food would really be in the spirit of the holiday. I suspect it would also lead to bad feeling, having to police for cheating, etc.
Thoughts on having part of the holiday be “have tasty food easily accessible (perhaps within sight range) during the fast”?
Pros:
It’s in keeping with the original story.
It can help us see the dangers of having instant gratification available, and let us practice our ability to resist short-term urges for long-term benefits.
If the goal of rationalist holidays is to help us feel like our own community, then this could help people feel more “special”. Many religions have holidays that call for a fast, but as far as I know none of them expect one to tempt themselves.
Cons:
It makes the fast harder. If people are used to their self-control strategy being “don’t tempt myself”, this will be new to them, and if they end up breaking their fast, they’d likely feel demoralized.
It looks like you’re framing this as a decision being made by and for a group as a whole (as opposed to an individual observation designed by and for each person themselves). Can you say more on why you believe that’s the best frame? My sense is a lot of the off-LW conflict over Vavilov Day boils down to the framing of individual vs. collective decision.
The framing wasn’t an intentional choice, I wasn’t considering that aspect when I made the comment. I haven’t been privy to any of the off-LW conflict about it, so it wasn’t something that I was primed to look out for. I am not suggesting that there should be a community-wide standard (or that there shouldn’t be). I intended it as “here’s an idea that people may find interesting.”
This conjures a mental image of getting a particularly delicious and delicious-looking dessert and leaving it front and center on the table for the 3 days, not to be cut into until the fast is over. This could fit well with a modified form of food abstinence, such as avoiding all sweet snacks and desserts, for those whose work demands or other circumstances are incompatible with complete fasting.
If many people observed in this way, I would imagine a competitive aspect emerging: who can celebrate by not-eating the most tempting-looking Vlavilov Day treat?
While friendly competition can be good in many contexts, I don’t think this is one of them. The holiday is about a dedicated team who were willing to die together for their cause. I don’t think competing to see who can go the longest without food would really be in the spirit of the holiday. I suspect it would also lead to bad feeling, having to police for cheating, etc.