Maybe the best way to approach this question is backwards. I assume you believe that people (at least) have some moral worth such that they ought not be owned, whimsically destroyed, etc. I also assume you believe that stones (at least) have no moral worth and can be owned, whimsically destroyed, etc. without any immediate moral consequences. So 1) tell me where you think the line is (even if its a very fuzzy, circumstantial one) and 2) tell me in virtue of what something has or lacks such moral worth.
...or 3) toss out my questions and tell me how you think it goes on your own terms.
I assume you believe that people (at least) have some moral worth such that they ought not be owned, whimsically destroyed, etc
Essentially. I don’t consider it a fact-about-the-world per se, but that captures my alief pretty well.
I also assume you believe that stones (at least) have no moral worth and can be owned, whimsically destroyed, etc without any immediate moral consequences.
Eh. Actually I have some squick to cavalier destruction or disruption of inanimate objects, but they don’t register out as the same thing. So we’ll go with that.
…or 3) toss out my questions and tell me how you think it goes on your own terms.
To what extent does an entity respond dynamically to both present and historical conditions in terms impacts on its health, wellbeing, emotional and perceptual experiences, social interactions and so on? To what extent is it capable of experiencing pain and suffering? To what extent does modifying my behavior in response to these things constitute a negative burden on myself or others? To what extent do present circumstances bear on all those things?
Those aren’t so much terms in an equation as independent axes of variance. There are probably some I haven’t listed. They define the shape of the space; the actual answer to your question is lurking somewhere in there.
Thanks, that’s helpful. Given what you’ve said, I doubt you and EY would disagree on much. EY says in his metaethics sequence that moral facts and categories like ‘moral worth’ or ‘autonomy’ are derived properties. In other words, they don’t refer to anything fundamental about the world, but supervene on some complex set of fundamental facts. Given that that’s his view, I think he was just using ‘sentience’ as a shorthand for something like what you’ve written: note that many of the considerations you describe are importantly related to a capacity for complex experiences.
note that many of the considerations you describe are importantly related to a capacity for complex experiences.
Except I’ve interacted with bugs in ways that satisfied that criterion (and that did parse out as morally-good), so clearly the devil’s in the details. If Eliezer suspects young children may reliably not qualify, and I suspect that insects may at least occasionally qualify, we’re clearly drawing very different lines and have very different underlying assumptions about reality.
I assume you believe that people (at least) have some moral worth such that they ought not be owned, whimsically destroyed, etc. I also assume you believe that stones (at least) have no moral worth and can be owned, whimsically destroyed, etc. without any immediate moral consequences. So 1) tell me where you think the line is (even if its a very fuzzy, circumstantial one)
What makes you think there’s a line? I care more about killing (or torturing) a dog than a stone, but less so than a human. Pulling the wings off flies provokes a similar, if weaker, reaction. A continuum might complicate the math slightly, but …
Maybe the best way to approach this question is backwards. I assume you believe that people (at least) have some moral worth such that they ought not be owned, whimsically destroyed, etc. I also assume you believe that stones (at least) have no moral worth and can be owned, whimsically destroyed, etc. without any immediate moral consequences. So 1) tell me where you think the line is (even if its a very fuzzy, circumstantial one) and 2) tell me in virtue of what something has or lacks such moral worth.
...or 3) toss out my questions and tell me how you think it goes on your own terms.
Essentially. I don’t consider it a fact-about-the-world per se, but that captures my alief pretty well.
Eh. Actually I have some squick to cavalier destruction or disruption of inanimate objects, but they don’t register out as the same thing. So we’ll go with that.
To what extent does an entity respond dynamically to both present and historical conditions in terms impacts on its health, wellbeing, emotional and perceptual experiences, social interactions and so on? To what extent is it capable of experiencing pain and suffering? To what extent does modifying my behavior in response to these things constitute a negative burden on myself or others? To what extent do present circumstances bear on all those things?
Those aren’t so much terms in an equation as independent axes of variance. There are probably some I haven’t listed. They define the shape of the space; the actual answer to your question is lurking somewhere in there.
Thanks, that’s helpful. Given what you’ve said, I doubt you and EY would disagree on much. EY says in his metaethics sequence that moral facts and categories like ‘moral worth’ or ‘autonomy’ are derived properties. In other words, they don’t refer to anything fundamental about the world, but supervene on some complex set of fundamental facts. Given that that’s his view, I think he was just using ‘sentience’ as a shorthand for something like what you’ve written: note that many of the considerations you describe are importantly related to a capacity for complex experiences.
Except I’ve interacted with bugs in ways that satisfied that criterion (and that did parse out as morally-good), so clearly the devil’s in the details. If Eliezer suspects young children may reliably not qualify, and I suspect that insects may at least occasionally qualify, we’re clearly drawing very different lines and have very different underlying assumptions about reality.
What makes you think there’s a line? I care more about killing (or torturing) a dog than a stone, but less so than a human. Pulling the wings off flies provokes a similar, if weaker, reaction. A continuum might complicate the math slightly, but …