Americans obsessed with education? Well I guess that’s true in a way, Americans do seem obsessed with the notion that everything is school or teacher’s fault (or liberals fault for not understanding ‘genetic differences’, if you ask the thinly veiled racists), and are rather unwilling to blame the cultural attitudes or the lack of motivation among those born into privilege of earning for the unskilled labour 10x the typical market price (which lets you easily buy top-of-the-line made in china shit like ipods while doing something entirely unskilled). Or to blame this very attitude of “i am basically perfect and it’s someone else’s fault”.
note: the worst thing is that the abovementioned lack of motivation is rather rational. It’s nowhere near as worth your time to put work into your study as it was worth my time (in terms of the pay with vs without this initial investment).
Americans do seem obsessed with the notion that everything is school or teacher’s fault
This part is exactly the same in Slovakia. In many discussions it seems like the parents no longer exist or have absolutely no influence on their children. Anything bad happens—why don’t teachers do something about it?
A personal anecdote: When I was a teacher in a private school, a mother of my student asked me to do something to make her daughter not spend whole days with computer on social networks at home. I didn’t even know what to answer, because our models of reality were so obviously incompatible. In my model, teachers have epsilon influence on what students do at home, while the parents are there and can apply the rewards and punishments. (For example, how about simply turning off the computer of your 15 years old daughter?) Her model probably did not contain this, and instead acribed some magical powers to me. -- This was an extreme case, but many people are probably doing less extreme version of this.
So while some specific details of this might be an “Americal obsession”, there is definitely a general trend beyond USA.
It’s nowhere near as worth your time to put work into your study as it was worth my time (in terms of the pay with vs without this initial investment).
From a selfish cost:benefit analysis—the more advanced civilization, the more is there to learn, but you have a higher quality of life even if you learn nothing. So depending on one’s priorities, ignoring education could be a rational choice. Maybe when you are an average person, it does not make much sense to learn, because an average educated person will not make so much money anyway. It makes more sense to learn if the ability to learn is your competitive advantage.
From a society point of view—educated people are a positive externality to a society they live in. Most of the benefit of your education does not end in your pockets, but improves the lives of people around you, whether in positive sense (you invent or produce something they can use, you are a smart employee they can employ cheaply) or just in negative sense (you avoid some stupid choices which would have negative effects on people around you).
So this disbalance suggests that for an average person, learning is not as useful for you personally as the society tells you. And the average people can notice it.
So while some specific details of this might be an “Americal obsession”, there is definitely a general trend beyond USA.
Yep, that’s a good point.
From a selfish cost:benefit analysis—the more advanced civilization, the more is there to learn, but you have a higher quality of life even if you learn nothing. So depending on one’s priorities, ignoring education could be a rational choice. Maybe when you are an average person, it does not make much sense to learn, because an average educated person will not make so much money anyway. It makes more sense to learn if the ability to learn is your competitive advantage.
My point was more on the disparity. For me, being qualified boosts my pay from the typical wage of Eastern Europe to good qualified labourer wage of the richest country, if I am actually good. For those born with more privilege in the today’s world, the non-educated pay is several times larger but the ceiling is the same (and is much more reachable without having to actually put work into studying).
From a society point of view—educated people are a positive externality to a society they live in. Most of the benefit of your education does not end in your pockets, but improves the lives of people around you, whether in positive sense (you invent or produce something they can use, you are a smart employee they can employ cheaply) or just in negative sense (you avoid some stupid choices which would have negative effects on people around you).
But is society capable of having a point of view and promoting it? I don’t think that is working.
And that is the attitude towards education issue.The necessity of actual motivation and work is ignored. There is that vague belief in the ideal self that is held back by something which you can easily fix by attending some sort of ritual self improvement, and a plenty of people offering (scientology, nxivm, etc), and at the much grander scale, the ineffective higher education which sells tokens of endorsement in forms of increasingly meaningless diplomas.
The cultural attitude is vaguely anti-intellectual (The young physicists are people into star trek and videogames, wanting to but entirely unable to date a woman several steps below them on the social ladder, is the premise of a popular comedy show, for instance. This is very ridiculous). And that is, to some extent, a phenomena in all developed countries. It’s not even so much that it is anti-intellectual as, well, who would want to be mr. Bean? What do you get if the science characters are the stock mr Bean of comedies? Humans are social creatures, and being laughed at is something most humans instinctively avoid. It’s bad enough that the education takes time and there are more and more shinier distractions everywhere; it’s bad enough that if you want to study you would have to not go to parties as much as the other kids; but to add to it the low status on the laughing ladder?
Americans obsessed with education? Well I guess that’s true in a way, Americans do seem obsessed with the notion that everything is school or teacher’s fault (or liberals fault for not understanding ‘genetic differences’, if you ask the thinly veiled racists), and are rather unwilling to blame the cultural attitudes or the lack of motivation among those born into privilege of earning for the unskilled labour 10x the typical market price (which lets you easily buy top-of-the-line made in china shit like ipods while doing something entirely unskilled). Or to blame this very attitude of “i am basically perfect and it’s someone else’s fault”.
note: the worst thing is that the abovementioned lack of motivation is rather rational. It’s nowhere near as worth your time to put work into your study as it was worth my time (in terms of the pay with vs without this initial investment).
This part is exactly the same in Slovakia. In many discussions it seems like the parents no longer exist or have absolutely no influence on their children. Anything bad happens—why don’t teachers do something about it?
A personal anecdote: When I was a teacher in a private school, a mother of my student asked me to do something to make her daughter not spend whole days with computer on social networks at home. I didn’t even know what to answer, because our models of reality were so obviously incompatible. In my model, teachers have epsilon influence on what students do at home, while the parents are there and can apply the rewards and punishments. (For example, how about simply turning off the computer of your 15 years old daughter?) Her model probably did not contain this, and instead acribed some magical powers to me. -- This was an extreme case, but many people are probably doing less extreme version of this.
So while some specific details of this might be an “Americal obsession”, there is definitely a general trend beyond USA.
From a selfish cost:benefit analysis—the more advanced civilization, the more is there to learn, but you have a higher quality of life even if you learn nothing. So depending on one’s priorities, ignoring education could be a rational choice. Maybe when you are an average person, it does not make much sense to learn, because an average educated person will not make so much money anyway. It makes more sense to learn if the ability to learn is your competitive advantage.
From a society point of view—educated people are a positive externality to a society they live in. Most of the benefit of your education does not end in your pockets, but improves the lives of people around you, whether in positive sense (you invent or produce something they can use, you are a smart employee they can employ cheaply) or just in negative sense (you avoid some stupid choices which would have negative effects on people around you).
So this disbalance suggests that for an average person, learning is not as useful for you personally as the society tells you. And the average people can notice it.
Yep, that’s a good point.
My point was more on the disparity. For me, being qualified boosts my pay from the typical wage of Eastern Europe to good qualified labourer wage of the richest country, if I am actually good. For those born with more privilege in the today’s world, the non-educated pay is several times larger but the ceiling is the same (and is much more reachable without having to actually put work into studying).
But is society capable of having a point of view and promoting it? I don’t think that is working.
And that is the attitude towards education issue.The necessity of actual motivation and work is ignored. There is that vague belief in the ideal self that is held back by something which you can easily fix by attending some sort of ritual self improvement, and a plenty of people offering (scientology, nxivm, etc), and at the much grander scale, the ineffective higher education which sells tokens of endorsement in forms of increasingly meaningless diplomas.
The cultural attitude is vaguely anti-intellectual (The young physicists are people into star trek and videogames, wanting to but entirely unable to date a woman several steps below them on the social ladder, is the premise of a popular comedy show, for instance. This is very ridiculous). And that is, to some extent, a phenomena in all developed countries. It’s not even so much that it is anti-intellectual as, well, who would want to be mr. Bean? What do you get if the science characters are the stock mr Bean of comedies? Humans are social creatures, and being laughed at is something most humans instinctively avoid. It’s bad enough that the education takes time and there are more and more shinier distractions everywhere; it’s bad enough that if you want to study you would have to not go to parties as much as the other kids; but to add to it the low status on the laughing ladder?