Something to keep in mind when you reply to comments here is that you are the default leader of this community and its highest status member. This means comments that would be reasonably glib or slightly snarky from other posters can come off as threatening and condescending when made by you. They’re not really threatening but they can instill in their targets strong fight-or-flight responses. Perhaps this is because in the ancestral environment status challenges from group leaders were far more threatening to our ancestor’s livelihood than challenges from other group members. When you’re kicking out trolls it’s a sight to see, but when you’re rhetorically challenging honest interlocutors it’s probably counter-productive. I had to step away from the computer because I could tell that even if I was wrong the feelings this comment provoked weren’t going to let me admit it (and you weren’t even actually mean, just snobby).
As to your question, I don’t think my understanding of the idea requires anyone to be an idiot. In fact from what you’ve said I doubt we’re that far a part on the matter of how threatening the idea is. There may be implications I haven’t thought through that you have and there maybe general responses to implications I’ve thought of that you haven’t. I often have trouble telling how much intelligence I needed to get somewhere but I think I’ve applied a fair amount in this case. Where I think we probably diverge significantly is in our estimation of the cost of the censorship which I think is more than high enough to outweigh the risk of making Roko’s idea public. It is at least plausible that you are underestimating this cost due to biases resulting from you social position in this group and your organizational affiliation.
I’ll note that, as wedrifid suggested, your position also seems to assume that quite a few Less Wrongians are being really stupid and can’t see the obvious. Perhaps those who have expressed disagreement with your decision aren’t quite as old-time as those who have. And perhaps this is because we have not internalized important concepts or accessed important evidence required to see the danger in Roko’s idea. But it is also noteworthy that the people who have expressed disagreement have mostly been outside the Yudkowsky/SIAI cluster relative to those who have agreed with you. This suggests that they might be less susceptible to the biases that may be affecting your estimation of the cost of the censorship.
I am a bit confused as I’m not totally sure the explanations I’ve thought of or seen posted for your actions sufficiently explain them- but that’s just the kind of uncertainty one always expects in disagreements. Are you not confused? If I didn’t think there was a downside to the censorship I would let it go. But I think the downside is huge, in particular I think the censorship makes it much harder to get more people to take Friendliness seriously as a scholarly field by people beyond the SIAI circle. I’m not sure you’re humble enough to care about that (that isn’t meant as a character attack btw). It makes the field look like a joke and makes its leading scholar look ridiculous. I’m not sure you have the political talents to recognize that. It also slightly increases the chances of someone not recognizing this failure mode (the one in Roko’s post) when it counts. I think you might be so sure (or so focused on the possibility that) you’re going to be the one flipping the switch in that situation that you aren’t worried enough about that.
Something to keep in mind when you reply to comments here is that you are the default leader of this community and its highest status member. This means comments that would be reasonably glib or slightly snarky from other posters can come off as threatening and condescending when made by you. They’re not really threatening but they can instill in their targets strong fight-or-flight responses. Perhaps this is because in the ancestral environment status challenges from group leaders were far more threatening to our ancestor’s livelihood than challenges from other group members. When you’re kicking out trolls it’s a sight to see, but when you’re rhetorically challenging honest interlocutors it’s probably counter-productive. I had to step away from the computer because I could tell that even if I was wrong the feelings this comment provoked weren’t going to let me admit it (and you weren’t even actually mean, just snobby).
As to your question, I don’t think my understanding of the idea requires anyone to be an idiot. In fact from what you’ve said I doubt we’re that far a part on the matter of how threatening the idea is. There may be implications I haven’t thought through that you have and there maybe general responses to implications I’ve thought of that you haven’t. I often have trouble telling how much intelligence I needed to get somewhere but I think I’ve applied a fair amount in this case. Where I think we probably diverge significantly is in our estimation of the cost of the censorship which I think is more than high enough to outweigh the risk of making Roko’s idea public. It is at least plausible that you are underestimating this cost due to biases resulting from you social position in this group and your organizational affiliation.
I’ll note that, as wedrifid suggested, your position also seems to assume that quite a few Less Wrongians are being really stupid and can’t see the obvious. Perhaps those who have expressed disagreement with your decision aren’t quite as old-time as those who have. And perhaps this is because we have not internalized important concepts or accessed important evidence required to see the danger in Roko’s idea. But it is also noteworthy that the people who have expressed disagreement have mostly been outside the Yudkowsky/SIAI cluster relative to those who have agreed with you. This suggests that they might be less susceptible to the biases that may be affecting your estimation of the cost of the censorship.
I am a bit confused as I’m not totally sure the explanations I’ve thought of or seen posted for your actions sufficiently explain them- but that’s just the kind of uncertainty one always expects in disagreements. Are you not confused? If I didn’t think there was a downside to the censorship I would let it go. But I think the downside is huge, in particular I think the censorship makes it much harder to get more people to take Friendliness seriously as a scholarly field by people beyond the SIAI circle. I’m not sure you’re humble enough to care about that (that isn’t meant as a character attack btw). It makes the field look like a joke and makes its leading scholar look ridiculous. I’m not sure you have the political talents to recognize that. It also slightly increases the chances of someone not recognizing this failure mode (the one in Roko’s post) when it counts. I think you might be so sure (or so focused on the possibility that) you’re going to be the one flipping the switch in that situation that you aren’t worried enough about that.