While I don’t disagree that “incentive systems causing corruption” is similar to what I would call conspiracy there seems to be a problem of the mundanity of evil. “Everyone knows” “capitalism” is unfair and corrupt, “everyone” doesn’t have a very specific understanding of how it is corrupt nor do they really think it can be addressed. It’s one of these unsolvable problems of “the system”.
Compare that to conspiracy people who for example actively distrust the media, actively resist the idea of large corporations running important parts of their lives such as the town-square. If we buy the idea that the system we have in place right now is systematically corrupt then these seem like reasonable actions to take, especially in an attempt to figure out alternatives.
I’m still having a very hard time to differentiate what people would call conspiracy. If the media knowingly tries to make you believe false thing X is that conspiracy? What about if all mainstream media knowingly try to make you believe false thing X? What if all mainstream media knowingly try to make you believe false thing X because another organization has decided that they should do that and has by some not-secret-but-not-known mechanism convinced all media of this?
What if the CIA tries to get control over how people think, is that conspiracy? What if they do this in a way that technically is not secret but claimed to be for our own good? Would that make it go from conspiracy to not?
What if the Mossad runs an operation to get blackmail on American politicians is that a conspiracy? What if they succeed and those politicians become high-ranking?
then I don’t think we meaningfully disagree on what there is to protect self and community from—malice incentivizes divide and conquer, so if you’re seeking to protect, unite and aid. my only objections to conspiracy theorism is that it can cause one to mismodel the coordination patterns that cause the behaviors one notices. in general, I don’t think the media as a whole tries to convince people of things; as a whole, mostly they try to get people to click on things. subgroups of media do have specific agendas, but for the most part the shared directions in behavior space do not result in reliable coordination. I also agree with Scott Alexander’s take about how the media usually lies: by omission. I don’t think it’s an awful idea to occasionally read or watch stuff produced by media companies, it’s just important to do citation tracing. don’t be a crackpot; there are always many possible causal hypotheses.
While I don’t disagree that “incentive systems causing corruption” is similar to what I would call conspiracy there seems to be a problem of the mundanity of evil. “Everyone knows” “capitalism” is unfair and corrupt, “everyone” doesn’t have a very specific understanding of how it is corrupt nor do they really think it can be addressed. It’s one of these unsolvable problems of “the system”.
Compare that to conspiracy people who for example actively distrust the media, actively resist the idea of large corporations running important parts of their lives such as the town-square. If we buy the idea that the system we have in place right now is systematically corrupt then these seem like reasonable actions to take, especially in an attempt to figure out alternatives.
I’m still having a very hard time to differentiate what people would call conspiracy. If the media knowingly tries to make you believe false thing X is that conspiracy? What about if all mainstream media knowingly try to make you believe false thing X? What if all mainstream media knowingly try to make you believe false thing X because another organization has decided that they should do that and has by some not-secret-but-not-known mechanism convinced all media of this?
What if the CIA tries to get control over how people think, is that conspiracy? What if they do this in a way that technically is not secret but claimed to be for our own good? Would that make it go from conspiracy to not?
What if the Mossad runs an operation to get blackmail on American politicians is that a conspiracy? What if they succeed and those politicians become high-ranking?
key question that will guide how I answer: is fox mainstream media in your view?
Yes
then I don’t think we meaningfully disagree on what there is to protect self and community from—malice incentivizes divide and conquer, so if you’re seeking to protect, unite and aid. my only objections to conspiracy theorism is that it can cause one to mismodel the coordination patterns that cause the behaviors one notices. in general, I don’t think the media as a whole tries to convince people of things; as a whole, mostly they try to get people to click on things. subgroups of media do have specific agendas, but for the most part the shared directions in behavior space do not result in reliable coordination. I also agree with Scott Alexander’s take about how the media usually lies: by omission. I don’t think it’s an awful idea to occasionally read or watch stuff produced by media companies, it’s just important to do citation tracing. don’t be a crackpot; there are always many possible causal hypotheses.