I feel like defining what exactly constitutes a conspiracy is a common problem I have when trying to discuss them, this makes me think the word has too much baggage and should be left for something else
This seems likely to me. Unpleasant equilibria and semi-organized feedback loops are very common. There’s almost no secret masterminds or shadowy cabals behind it, just selfish short-sighted power-seeking behavior. Calling it “conspiracy” without clarifying the mechanisms and motivations is misleading.
Think tank that is made up of small group of highly filtered elites analyses the world
Media org listens almost entirely to what think tank thinks should be done and tailors message to that
Govs follow media narrative and puts into practice what think tank wanted
1.5 is “think tank is publicly incorporated, takes funding in mostly-public ways, and publishes position papers with it’s name (and the name of members) on it”, right? I’d classify that as “normal, if imperfect, power relationships”, not “conspiracy.
If you put a more direct path from think tank’s non-public motives and recommendations to/from powerful individuals in government, especially if it contradicts public statements from the think tank and government, you have a conspiracy. If there are hidden paybacks or agendas in the media, those are conspiracies.
I suspect you’ve found our crux: “conspiracy” implies “intentionally and explicitly secret” to me, not just selective information and power-seeking, or even fairly pervasive corruption. The reason the distinction matters is that if one sees hidden competent conspiracies where there are none, the obvious bad equilibria use that against you.
There’s almost no secret masterminds or shadowy cabals behind it, just selfish short-sighted power-seeking behavior.
How do you know this?
1.5 is “think tank is publicly incorporated, takes funding in mostly-public ways, and publishes position papers with it’s name (and the name of members) on it”, right? I’d classify that as “normal, if imperfect, power relationships”, not “conspiracy.
Yeah, I think this is usually how it works. However I also think the way these are written makes them almost impossible for people not in the know to understand them or know that they exist.
Do you think it would be accurate to call the soviet union a conspiracy? In it there were rarely explicit lies, although they happened, people in a sense knew that the power structure was manipulating them and not working in their interest yet regular people (I think) didn’t pay this too much mind.
This seems likely to me. Unpleasant equilibria and semi-organized feedback loops are very common. There’s almost no secret masterminds or shadowy cabals behind it, just selfish short-sighted power-seeking behavior. Calling it “conspiracy” without clarifying the mechanisms and motivations is misleading.
1.5 is “think tank is publicly incorporated, takes funding in mostly-public ways, and publishes position papers with it’s name (and the name of members) on it”, right? I’d classify that as “normal, if imperfect, power relationships”, not “conspiracy.
If you put a more direct path from think tank’s non-public motives and recommendations to/from powerful individuals in government, especially if it contradicts public statements from the think tank and government, you have a conspiracy. If there are hidden paybacks or agendas in the media, those are conspiracies.
I suspect you’ve found our crux: “conspiracy” implies “intentionally and explicitly secret” to me, not just selective information and power-seeking, or even fairly pervasive corruption. The reason the distinction matters is that if one sees hidden competent conspiracies where there are none, the obvious bad equilibria use that against you.
How do you know this?
Yeah, I think this is usually how it works. However I also think the way these are written makes them almost impossible for people not in the know to understand them or know that they exist.
Do you think it would be accurate to call the soviet union a conspiracy? In it there were rarely explicit lies, although they happened, people in a sense knew that the power structure was manipulating them and not working in their interest yet regular people (I think) didn’t pay this too much mind.