I’m not sure how this is relevant, it may be that I’m just missing your point here.
One thing that is a useful distinction to make here is that “school” in the classic sense of the word doesn’t apply to the system I’m talking about. If you learn something such as doing taxes, either through formal means, or through informal means, the goal of this system is to be able to track that you learned that, and show others that you can use it in meaningful ways. Moreover, if you haven’t learned it, the system should suggest efficient ways for you to do so.
The general argument is that you shouldn’t engage in what Nassim Taleb calls teaching birds to fly.
If you take a bunch of young doves and try to teach them to fly, you may pat yourself on the back when they indeed start flying. You might think that you are a great teacher because the doves actually fly.
I was once at a Barcamp where a teacher talks about her troubles of teaching young student how to use the technology of a Wiki. She made a good argument that every adult should be able to operate a Wiki.
Editing Wiki’s is something I learned on the side when I had the need to do so. People learn to fill their taxes when they have a a need to do so.
I think you want two things in an education system. One is project based learning.
The second is good learning of basics that you need for higher level skills.
Still trying to connect this to your original comment. Can you give an example of where you think my system would be insufficient, and what alternative you’re suggesting?
Can you give an example of where you think my system would be insufficient, and what alternative you’re suggesting?
I think the part that I quoted suggests that you get a list of what skills companies require and then work through that list teaching all those skills.
I think that’s a bad idea. Yes, companies might want their employees to be able to use a Wiki. On the other hand you don’t have to go out and specifically teach the skill.
I think that’s a bad idea. Yes, companies might want their employees to be able to use a Wiki. On the other hand you don’t have to go out and specifically teach the skill.
I think we’re in agreement here. My point there was that companies decide what skills they require for a position, and that if they decide to screen for generally useful skills such as rationality or self-control, this may give them a leg up on the competition (which would ultimately lead to every competitor screening for these same skills.) It was a response to azerners arguments for a standardized curriculum.
I tend to think that screening for a skill that someone can learn in an hour (like a Wiki) will limit your options and lead to less options for candidates, but who knows. Perhaps screening being very specific would cause you to only get candidates who had specifically groomed themselves for your position,and were therefore more motivated than the usual.
My point being that the free market will ultimately make these decisions and weed out what skills are useful to screen for, this system merely enables the companies to screen those skills n a more objective way than the traditional hiring process.
I tend to think that screening for a skill that someone can learn in an hour (like a Wiki) will limit your options and lead to less options for candidates, but who knows.
The interesting thing is that learning to use a Wiki isn’t the kind of skill that a school teacher considers to be easily teachable in an hour to her average student.
Seeing the plight of a teacher who tries to be modern and tech the kids to use modern technology has made me question the extend to which schools teach anything useful.
My point being that the free market will ultimately make these decisions and weed out what skills are useful to screen for, this system merely enables the companies to screen those skills n a more objective way than the traditional hiring process.
Okay, I’m in agreement with letting the market decide which skills employers want to hire for.
I think that both of you are assuming an average computer-proficient person when making estimates of how hard it is for someone to learn to use a wiki. An average person in general, or an average computer-phobic person, could have a much harder time.
E.g. one of my friends, who’s definitely quite intelligent but has issues with computers, did eventually learn to use wikis, but not before three or four different people had tried to teach them to her. (Or possibly she did learn them on each occasion but then completely forgot about them in the intervening time—I’m fuzzy on the details.)
Hi Christian,
I’m not sure how this is relevant, it may be that I’m just missing your point here.
One thing that is a useful distinction to make here is that “school” in the classic sense of the word doesn’t apply to the system I’m talking about. If you learn something such as doing taxes, either through formal means, or through informal means, the goal of this system is to be able to track that you learned that, and show others that you can use it in meaningful ways. Moreover, if you haven’t learned it, the system should suggest efficient ways for you to do so.
The general argument is that you shouldn’t engage in what Nassim Taleb calls teaching birds to fly.
If you take a bunch of young doves and try to teach them to fly, you may pat yourself on the back when they indeed start flying. You might think that you are a great teacher because the doves actually fly.
I was once at a Barcamp where a teacher talks about her troubles of teaching young student how to use the technology of a Wiki. She made a good argument that every adult should be able to operate a Wiki.
Editing Wiki’s is something I learned on the side when I had the need to do so. People learn to fill their taxes when they have a a need to do so.
I think you want two things in an education system. One is project based learning. The second is good learning of basics that you need for higher level skills.
Still trying to connect this to your original comment. Can you give an example of where you think my system would be insufficient, and what alternative you’re suggesting?
I think the part that I quoted suggests that you get a list of what skills companies require and then work through that list teaching all those skills.
I think that’s a bad idea. Yes, companies might want their employees to be able to use a Wiki. On the other hand you don’t have to go out and specifically teach the skill.
I think we’re in agreement here. My point there was that companies decide what skills they require for a position, and that if they decide to screen for generally useful skills such as rationality or self-control, this may give them a leg up on the competition (which would ultimately lead to every competitor screening for these same skills.) It was a response to azerners arguments for a standardized curriculum.
I tend to think that screening for a skill that someone can learn in an hour (like a Wiki) will limit your options and lead to less options for candidates, but who knows. Perhaps screening being very specific would cause you to only get candidates who had specifically groomed themselves for your position,and were therefore more motivated than the usual.
My point being that the free market will ultimately make these decisions and weed out what skills are useful to screen for, this system merely enables the companies to screen those skills n a more objective way than the traditional hiring process.
The interesting thing is that learning to use a Wiki isn’t the kind of skill that a school teacher considers to be easily teachable in an hour to her average student.
Seeing the plight of a teacher who tries to be modern and tech the kids to use modern technology has made me question the extend to which schools teach anything useful.
Okay, I’m in agreement with letting the market decide which skills employers want to hire for.
I think that both of you are assuming an average computer-proficient person when making estimates of how hard it is for someone to learn to use a wiki. An average person in general, or an average computer-phobic person, could have a much harder time.
E.g. one of my friends, who’s definitely quite intelligent but has issues with computers, did eventually learn to use wikis, but not before three or four different people had tried to teach them to her. (Or possibly she did learn them on each occasion but then completely forgot about them in the intervening time—I’m fuzzy on the details.)