You confidently characterize the man’s comments as an effort to dominate. Why are you not equally cynical about Alice’s motives? Why do you not conclude that her comments are part of a strategy to dominate in this domain of their relationship? Why not say “She may not consciously understand what she’s doing, but that’s what’s happening.”?
Personally, I am inclined to be less cynical about both their motivations.
Why are you not equally cynical about Alice’s motives?
That’s a good question. Here is my cynical analysis of Alice’s potential psychology. I think there is a lot of room to read a power-play on Alice’s part (though that says nothing about whether it is justified or not).
You confidently characterize the man’s comments as an effort to dominate. Why are you not equally cynical about Alice’s motives? Why do you not conclude that her comments are part of a strategy to dominate in this domain of their relationship? Why not say “She may not consciously understand what she’s doing, but that’s what’s happening.”?
That seems about right. But entirely within the realm of normal social behavior. Being able to understand such dynamics does not make them any more sinister. The point about “she may not consciously understand, but” is good. And if she does understand then I will not judge her for being obnoxious, just for being obnoxious but ineffective.
Personally, I am inclined to be less cynical about both their motivations.
And if she does understand then I will not judge her for being obnoxious, just for being obnoxious but ineffective.
Ah, but who says she is being ineffective? That depends on her goals (see my reply to the parent). If her goal is to piss off Bob, and/or make him feel guilty and/or make his start getting apologetic, then she is already doing well. She’s already got him to admit that he has done something wrong without making any explicit accusations (assuming he is being sincere, not sarcastic). Who says her goal is relationship harmony? Some people prefer drama.
Humans were selected for having reproductively successful relationships, but not all successful mating strategies involve harmony.
Me. You will notice (or, rather, I would usually expect HughRistik to notice) that the quote is explicitly conditional on the technique being a an overt self aware strategy. And I really do assert that if I was a self aware scheming manipulator that I could do better. Frankly it is an amateur move. A more talented or more experienced bitch (using the term in a technical sense to whatever extent that is possible) would sneer at the though of being so crude.
Humans were selected for having reproductively successful relationships, but not all successful mating strategies involve harmony.
I agree. War, rape, infanticide, murder and even being a pain in the ass are highly viable strategies. Learning how to be a pain in the ass productively is a highly recommended life skill.
You confidently characterize the man’s comments as an effort to dominate. Why are you not equally cynical about Alice’s motives? Why do you not conclude that her comments are part of a strategy to dominate in this domain of their relationship? Why not say “She may not consciously understand what she’s doing, but that’s what’s happening.”?
Personally, I am inclined to be less cynical about both their motivations.
That’s a good question. Here is my cynical analysis of Alice’s potential psychology. I think there is a lot of room to read a power-play on Alice’s part (though that says nothing about whether it is justified or not).
That seems about right. But entirely within the realm of normal social behavior. Being able to understand such dynamics does not make them any more sinister. The point about “she may not consciously understand, but” is good. And if she does understand then I will not judge her for being obnoxious, just for being obnoxious but ineffective.
Ah, but who says she is being ineffective? That depends on her goals (see my reply to the parent). If her goal is to piss off Bob, and/or make him feel guilty and/or make his start getting apologetic, then she is already doing well. She’s already got him to admit that he has done something wrong without making any explicit accusations (assuming he is being sincere, not sarcastic). Who says her goal is relationship harmony? Some people prefer drama.
Humans were selected for having reproductively successful relationships, but not all successful mating strategies involve harmony.
Me. You will notice (or, rather, I would usually expect HughRistik to notice) that the quote is explicitly conditional on the technique being a an overt self aware strategy. And I really do assert that if I was a self aware scheming manipulator that I could do better. Frankly it is an amateur move. A more talented or more experienced bitch (using the term in a technical sense to whatever extent that is possible) would sneer at the though of being so crude.
I agree. War, rape, infanticide, murder and even being a pain in the ass are highly viable strategies. Learning how to be a pain in the ass productively is a highly recommended life skill.
Very well, I concede that there could be more powerful self-aware plays.