On this principle, it would be wrong for the cable guy to come to my house, because if billions of people came to my house, then there would be no place for anyone to park.
There are many problems with this analogy—for example, Rachels asks people NOT to do something so the proper parallel would be for billions of people not to come to her house which seems perfectly fine to me.
But to make clear the major flaw of this comparison let me ask you a question: What percentage of human population would you like to follow the advice of not having kids? And if it’s less than 100% what would you consider to be the best way of dividing people into those who should have kids and those who should not?
This question solves the silly problem of “but what if everyone did that”—please tell me how many people do you want to do that.
What percentage of human population would you like to follow the advice of not having kids?
Having kids is justified altruistically if the benefit to the world of having kids is greater than the benefit to the world of spending a similar amount of money and time on the most effective charity. This isn’t a percentage thing; it depends on people’s individual situations. Right now donation probably wins for nearly everyone, but as more money went into the best charitable options it would become more and more expensive to dramatically improve a stranger’s life, which would decrease the fraction of people that shouldn’t have kids.
I don’t see any qualifications like “depending on your individual situation”.
I interpret Rachels’ use of “in our position” as being that qualification, and I think that’s how it was intended.
right now, what is the fraction of people that shouldn’t have kids?
100%. But I would also say that everyone reading this should spend their marginal dollar on the most effective charity and not on themself. This sense of “would the world be better if you did X instead of Y? Then X is moral and Y is not” is incredibly demanding.
Translating this into practical behavior, I think people should set a (high) bound for their altruism and then optimize for their own happiness and life satisfaction within that limit. Which is why I’m choosing to have kids anyway.
The right thing to do would be to completely maximize earnings and minimize expenses to the point where any additional decrease in spending on yourself would decrease earnings by even more. This would involve not having kids, but also not eating at restaurants, traveling, having a phone, going to movies, or anything else optional. In practice I don’t think this works, and so what I think people should actually do is divide up their money into two pools: set an amount to donate and an amount to keep. Within the amount you keep, spend the money in whatever way you think will make you happiest and most fulfilled.
So I divide my spending into 30% to donate and 70% for everything else (taxes, housing, food, fun). In choosing to have kids my wife and I are displacing a lot of spending we would do on ourselves, but still keeping that 30⁄70 split.
I think it depends what field you’re in and how you use your phone. You basically can’t be a plumber without a phone, but until 2011 I didn’t have a phone working as a programmer and it didn’t seem to be causing me any work trouble. (Just social trouble, like people no longer having functional doorbells and expecting you to call them when you arrived.)
For this “incredibly demanding” view (which I don’t actually think humans should apply) the question is “does the phone bring in more money than it costs, all things considered?” and if it does then I’ve mischaracterized it above.
There are many problems with this analogy—for example, Rachels asks people NOT to do something so the proper parallel would be for billions of people not to come to her house which seems perfectly fine to me.
But to make clear the major flaw of this comparison let me ask you a question: What percentage of human population would you like to follow the advice of not having kids? And if it’s less than 100% what would you consider to be the best way of dividing people into those who should have kids and those who should not?
This question solves the silly problem of “but what if everyone did that”—please tell me how many people do you want to do that.
Having kids is justified altruistically if the benefit to the world of having kids is greater than the benefit to the world of spending a similar amount of money and time on the most effective charity. This isn’t a percentage thing; it depends on people’s individual situations. Right now donation probably wins for nearly everyone, but as more money went into the best charitable options it would become more and more expensive to dramatically improve a stranger’s life, which would decrease the fraction of people that shouldn’t have kids.
That’s not what Rachels and you say. From her quote with which you agree:
I don’t see any qualifications like “depending on your individual situation”. Neither do I see them in the OP.
Rachels is inviting people to sainthood (” If we become saints...”) and as far as I can see she wants as many people as possible to do so.
I’ll repeat the question: in your opinion, right now, what is the fraction of people that shouldn’t have kids?
Stuart Rachels is a male philosopher.
Thanks. I had an obvious contamination...
I interpret Rachels’ use of “in our position” as being that qualification, and I think that’s how it was intended.
100%. But I would also say that everyone reading this should spend their marginal dollar on the most effective charity and not on themself. This sense of “would the world be better if you did X instead of Y? Then X is moral and Y is not” is incredibly demanding.
Translating this into practical behavior, I think people should set a (high) bound for their altruism and then optimize for their own happiness and life satisfaction within that limit. Which is why I’m choosing to have kids anyway.
I don’ see how
(1) “I interpret Rachels’ use of “in our position” as being that qualification, and I think that’s how it was intended.”
and (2) “I’m choosing to have kids anyway.”
is consistent with
(3) “100%”
The right thing to do would be to completely maximize earnings and minimize expenses to the point where any additional decrease in spending on yourself would decrease earnings by even more. This would involve not having kids, but also not eating at restaurants, traveling, having a phone, going to movies, or anything else optional. In practice I don’t think this works, and so what I think people should actually do is divide up their money into two pools: set an amount to donate and an amount to keep. Within the amount you keep, spend the money in whatever way you think will make you happiest and most fulfilled.
So I divide my spending into 30% to donate and 70% for everything else (taxes, housing, food, fun). In choosing to have kids my wife and I are displacing a lot of spending we would do on ourselves, but still keeping that 30⁄70 split.
Not having a phone? Really? That degree of isolation would make it harder to acquire or maintain gainful employment.
I think it depends what field you’re in and how you use your phone. You basically can’t be a plumber without a phone, but until 2011 I didn’t have a phone working as a programmer and it didn’t seem to be causing me any work trouble. (Just social trouble, like people no longer having functional doorbells and expecting you to call them when you arrived.)
For this “incredibly demanding” view (which I don’t actually think humans should apply) the question is “does the phone bring in more money than it costs, all things considered?” and if it does then I’ve mischaracterized it above.
I don’t see any answer to this other than “everybody should have kids at the replacement rate”.